Originally posted by Flamingo
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Irish trawler 'given order to move on' by Royal Navy frigate
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostThe AU$35bn for the Hunter class is the project cost and includes more than just the initial cost to build the ships. Also they are high end multi-purpose equipped with a sensor and weapons fit closer to what would be considered a destroyer rather than a frigate.
But smaller and cheaper ASW capable ships are possible, the Sigma 10514 and Incheon classes are around US$250m while the Type31 have a cost ceiling of £250m.
Even the Finnish with their Squadron 2020 will produce a ASW capable vessel with the Pohjanmaa-class corvette (4 for €1,300).
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Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostTo be fair you are selecting the highest end warship in the Hunter for the role, there is and will be lower spec'd hulls that we could get if were interested in building up such capability, or build up the AC for more active MPA capabilities.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostI'm not saying Hunter, I'm sayin we take the old ANZACsLast edited by Sparky42; 26 July 2020, 20:54.
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Originally posted by apc View PostJesus no they'll be looking for at ieast 2 submarines on QRA 24/7/365
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I remember in 1982 onboard Emer we came across a Russian Okean class spy trawler in the same area in question off Donegal , our skipper decided to get up close to them for a bit of fun and the Russians could be seen filming us with large tri pod cameras , we had been on a Med trip earlier in the year which had included a stop in Almeria so Emers' crew had a fine collection of Spanish and North African attire onboard as souvenirs from the trip , somewhere in Russian Naval Intelligence archives is a film of an Irish Navy ship with a crew dressed like Mexican bandits and Moorish pirates with red Fez hats and long traditional Moroccan shirts waving happily for the Russians' cameras .Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .
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Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostANZACs that will be 30 odd years old at the stage when they are replaced (and designed even before that), thats like suggesting that we buy some surplus 4th gen fighters for QRA and ignoring the costs of older aircraft. By the time the RAN are done with them I expect they will be fit for the scrappers.
Would be more effective to Buy in on the P8 game though. A good MAD scan of the area of activity would give sub commanders a nice headache. €150m each. Tell everyone it's the new government jet and nobody will care.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostInterestingly, when the ANZACs were selected, the NZ government at the time were more interested in the L.E. Eithne design (according to wiki). They went with Frigates instead as the only way to ensure their seas remained Nuclear free.
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Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostBest best so is to join the bandwagon and buy some off the shelf. Not many still in the ASW game though. Air Warfare is where the frigate game has gone lately, and any ASW frigates being built come with much greater cost, and capability we won't need.
Would be more effective to Buy in on the P8 game though. A good MAD scan of the area of activity would give sub commanders a nice headache. €150m each. Tell everyone it's the new government jet and nobody will care.
A P-8 or any other aircraft are great at detecting a sub but if you want to track it properly you need a ship. Unless you have multiple P-8's that can maintain station.
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Originally posted by apc View PostJesus no they'll be looking for at ieast 2 submarines on QRA 24/7/365
We are an island nation and although we do share the island with another nation the armed forces of that nation would have to be transported and sustained by air & sea. We rely on sea based commerce, the vast majority of our trade is by sea, we rely on power and communication networks that criss-cross out sea bed.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostNot quiet true, while the dedicated ASW only vessels have gone that does not mean the capability is gone. But surface vessels are not the only ASW element in most navies, the sub itself is one of the most effective sub hunters. And before we go off on the P-8 trip it would be worthwhile considering that the C-295's in service with Chile are equipped with MAD and Sonarbouys for ASW.
A P-8 or any other aircraft are great at detecting a sub but if you want to track it properly you need a ship. Unless you have multiple P-8's that can maintain station.
Costs are comparable to frigates, but require less crew and a Clareman did invent the Submarine.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostNot quiet true, while the dedicated ASW only vessels have gone that does not mean the capability is gone. But surface vessels are not the only ASW element in most navies, the sub itself is one of the most effective sub hunters. And before we go off on the P-8 trip it would be worthwhile considering that the C-295's in service with Chile are equipped with MAD and Sonarbouys for ASW.
A P-8 or any other aircraft are great at detecting a sub but if you want to track it properly you need a ship. Unless you have multiple P-8's that can maintain station.
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Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostOr your own subs? Costs are comparable to frigates, but require less crew and a Clareman did invent the Submarine.Last edited by Anzac; 27 July 2020, 12:20.
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Originally posted by Anzac View PostThe RNZN also looked at submarines instead of frigates during the mid 1980's to replace the Leanders and yes comparable on costs, however the time estimated to generate a submariner capability in both personnel and platform was deemed to be at best 12 - 15 years when such a capability was to be built front scratch. A frigate was found to have much greater utility and thus value for money as a whole of government asset, in that they are truly a multi-role platform.
Multi-role is more available now as capability can be moved intership once power, space, and connections are provided for. We ,of course. because of position on the global AOP are ideal for submarine use. Not saying it should be done but it would be a collaborative effort requiring embedding with the supplying /building country such as Sweden or Germany.
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Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostDorcha Lee Col. Rtd has an interesting article on Defence and phrases used to cap spending like" we are a small country" but pointing out that the UN regard us as a medium country. He makes comparisons between us and others on percentage spend of GDP and of course we come in last.
Originally posted by ancientmariner View PostMulti-role is more available now as capability can be moved intership once power, space, and connections are provided for. We ,of course. because of position on the global AOP are ideal for submarine use. Not saying it should be done but it would be a collaborative effort requiring embedding with the supplying /building country such as Sweden or Germany.
Of course with subs down the track you would have home team advantage as half of NATO go to play from time to time off your west coast no doubt.Last edited by Anzac; 27 July 2020, 16:05.
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