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Thread: OPV Replacement

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I suppose it’s OPSEC to ask if the new PC-12’s can do that?
    The PC-12 are only fitted with EO sensors which while the could detect a heat source coming from narco-sub they are not designed as a scanning sensor. Thus the aircraft would have to fly almost (a few kms) over the the vessel to detect it. Given the size of the potential area to cover the fleet would need to be constantly in the air.

    This might be a case for using a suitably equipped drone that usually have loiter time of 48hrs+

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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The PC-12 are only fitted with EO sensors which while the could detect a heat source coming from narco-sub they are not designed as a scanning sensor. Thus the aircraft would have to fly almost (a few kms) over the the vessel to detect it. Given the size of the potential area to cover the fleet would need to be constantly in the air.

    This might be a case for using a suitably equipped drone that usually have loiter time of 48hrs+
    Right kind of Drone off a monitoring ship would be useful. Long range from shore would require a bigger machine and more technology. Glad to see the Air Corps have done a repatriation of West African based Irish Officers with an extreme range refuelling in the Canary Islands, using the NEW plane. These military chores should be routine with trialled routes , as emergencies will always arise on overseas missions. Well done anyhow.

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  5. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I suppose it’s OPSEC to ask if the new PC-12’s can do that?
    They cannot. The requirements are public, as are the specs of a Spectra. Fundamentally they cary a camera ball and the necessary comms equipment. They are a lot better than the Cessnas but still very low ball.

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  7. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    They cannot. The requirements are public, as are the specs of a Spectra. Fundamentally they cary a camera ball and the necessary comms equipment. They are a lot better than the Cessnas but still very low ball.
    There are only three ways to have submarine surveillance and tracking in major choke areas. Firstly a general hydrophone system like SOSUS used in the Cold War ERA, then MPA patrols with MAD gear to interrogate areas of SOSUS response, finally deployable units to track specific targets .

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  9. #80
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    I understand SOSUS has been repurposed for Cetacean monitoring...
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  10. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I understand SOSUS has been repurposed for Cetacean monitoring...
    It has been turned over mostly for civilian work. In any case a hydrophone system like SOSUS relies on the age old triangulation to get a fix, so not the best solution for an island. Even when SOSUS was fully operational NATO still had to dedicate a large amount of effort to finding the contacts made by SOSUS and tracking them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    It has been turned over mostly for civilian work. In any case a hydrophone system like SOSUS relies on the age old triangulation to get a fix, so not the best solution for an island. Even when SOSUS was fully operational NATO still had to dedicate a large amount of effort to finding the contacts made by SOSUS and tracking them.
    The overall balance has currently switched back to the submarine, especially those designed to be acoustically quiet. Those on high speed runs may be more easily detected for bearing by an array looking at the Iceland gap or at exits from major water masses like Gibraltar straits. In relative terms fleets are getting smaller and submarines are getting quieter so detection means have to improve. The latest is copying Dolphin style sonar using Twin Pulse echoes. It is known as TWIPS and is also attracting attention for the development of Twin Pulse radar. It is all in the laboratory at the moment but no doubt will develop to full scale.

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  13. #83
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    Interesting option.
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  15. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post


    Interesting option.
    We have had this capability for 6 years now but AFAIK we are not utilising it. The P-60 class have three positions on the aft deck for containerised mission systems. What is missing ate the containerised mission systems. For example it would be possible to have a containerized MCM system complete with USV.

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  17. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    We have had this capability for 6 years now but AFAIK we are not utilising it. The P-60 class have three positions on the aft deck for containerised mission systems. What is missing ate the containerised mission systems. For example it would be possible to have a containerized MCM system complete with USV.
    Very possible

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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    We have had this capability for 6 years now but AFAIK we are not utilising it. The P-60 class have three positions on the aft deck for containerised mission systems. What is missing ate the containerised mission systems. For example it would be possible to have a containerized MCM system complete with USV.
    Unless the OPVs are built from amagnetic steel, I'd really not do that ...

  19. #87
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    Modern 21st century MCM does not require all MCM vessels to be non-magnetic, the trend is not to put the manned vessel in harms way. The most modern methods are to utilize USVs and AUVs to search the suspect area while the mother-ship stays out of the area. Even the naval diver is removed from modern operations with their tasks handled by expendable small AUVs.

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  21. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Modern 21st century MCM does not require all MCM vessels to be non-magnetic, the trend is not to put the manned vessel in harms way. The most modern methods are to utilize USVs and AUVs to search the suspect area while the mother-ship stays out of the area. Even the naval diver is removed from modern operations with their tasks handled by expendable small AUVs.
    Even MCMVs don’t enter the mined area any more

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  23. #89
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    Seems the Dutch are going to fit finally the "Hull Vane" to one of their Holland Class OPVs. It would be interesting if there was any benefit fitting them to P60s.

    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...s-zeeland-opv/

    https://www.hullvane.com/wp-content/...akeeping-1.pdf

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