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  • #61
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Depends what comes out of Commission on Defence

    Imagine replacing the P50s with 2 frigates




    Pie in the sky but if the Commission is to be a serious discussion of our future posture and requirements
    Let's say with 2 Corvettes, doesn't sound as much!!

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    • #62
      Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      Let's say with 2 Corvettes, doesn't sound as much!!
      Absolutely and more affordable

      An OPV with improved sensors (including integration) and weapons could fit the bill

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
        If by 2027 they are still at £250m I'd be stunned and as said that's even with pull through from the 23's. Also currently only 5 hulls, if we are talking about trying to increase capabilities for the DF I'd try to pick whatever hull has the largest user base by then, the T31's may not be it.



        When you consider that the whole idea of the Type 31e was to win export sales and keep British shipyards open

        It is the Type 26 that has won export orders from Canada and Australia (afaik locally built)

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        • #64
          Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
          Again I repeat, there is the EPV Thread for the replacement of the Eithne; here I asked the question on the P50 class and possible relation with the EPC program due to their similar timeframes for building.

          The EPC is proposed in three basic versions none of which are intended to replace any current fleet units. They are:
          1. EPC optimised for anti-surface (ASuW) and anti-aircraft (AAW) warfare with the possibility of extending the warfare domains to anti-submarine warfare (ASW); the vessel is equipped with self-defence capabilities.
          2. EPC optimized for ant-surface warfare (ASuW) and designed with oceanic reach (range of 10,000 nautical miles at 14 knots).
          3. EPC optimized for blue-water (off shore) patrol missions

          It is the latter version which might be of interest and the one on which early involvement may ensure that the design would be suitable.
          IMNSHO we are going too far ahead. There are three ships due to be replaced P41, P42 , P31. There is a huge technical programme to be ironed out as to how the use of these replacements will be fitted and tasked, and in what size and format. If any or all of that is shut out then we may start thinking of replacements 15 or 18 years down the road. All of that is too diversionary for me . There is nothing wrong in building a modern, maybe lengthened , version of what you have got and put in the things omitted from your Mark 1 , like a flight deck, CMS, intermediate armament , AAM. etc. The P50's are not due for replacement , unless FU, until 2035 at earliest.

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          • #65
            When considering sub-surface threats we also need to consider

            This open source intelligence (OSINT) report documents the development of narco-submarines in Spanish waters. These vessels, known as LPVs (Low Profile Vessels) or alternatively SPSS (Self-Propelled Semi-Submersible) vessels, are proliferating globally. These 'narco-submarines' now include three types: Fully Submersible Vessels (FSVs), Low Profile Vessels (LPVs), and hybrid Low Profile Vessels/Go-Fast Vessels (LPV/GFVs).

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            • #66
              Originally posted by DeV View Post
              When considering sub-surface threats we also need to consider

              https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/ar...rco-submarines
              There is a big problem with these types of vessel in that they are extremely difficult to detect. By being semi-submerged active sonar is almost useless, passive is not great either. Given the low profile above water unless there is a flat calm radar has difficulty in picking then out in the normal clutter. That an 80m cargo ship can drift across the Atlantic and land on the shore on Cork shows that there are gaps in surveillance even without narco-subs.

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              • #67
                The only thing that can spot them is aerial surveillance, the only thing that can catch them is fast boat. The Spanish Customs force have been using both for years in the med, as drug runners cross the med in High Powered boats with often up to 6 250HP engines. (Sometimes called cigarette boats).
                The first Transatlantic narco sub was caught with nets.

                Thing is, the narco subs are not subs at all. While they may share the hull profile of something seen during the first world war, they are strictly surface transiting craft, with a very low profile. Because 90% of the craft sits below the waterline, they can be quite stable in most seas. You just need to look for their wake and their IR profile from above. On radar, they'll only appear as clutter.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                • #68
                  The go fasts are different from nacro subs. These are generally slow and as you say are generally not subs but semi-submersible with very low RCS

                  The chances of them heading this far north?????
                  They could well be already here

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                  • #69
                    They aren't semi submersible either. They are just a boat with a very small profile above the waterline.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      The only thing that can spot them is aerial surveillance, the only thing that can catch them is fast boat. The Spanish Customs force have been using both for years in the med, as drug runners cross the med in High Powered boats with often up to 6 250HP engines. (Sometimes called cigarette boats).
                      The first Transatlantic narco sub was caught with nets.

                      Thing is, the narco subs are not subs at all. While they may share the hull profile of something seen during the first world war, they are strictly surface transiting craft, with a very low profile. Because 90% of the craft sits below the waterline, they can be quite stable in most seas. You just need to look for their wake and their IR profile from above. On radar, they'll only appear as clutter.
                      Would SLAR be better for detecting this type of vessel?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                        Would SLAR be better for detecting this type of vessel?
                        I don't see how Teacher Professional collaboration in the the Secondary School junior cycle can help.... https://ncca.ie/en/junior-cycle/asse.../slar-meetings

                        Unless you want to provide a link to an alternative version of the acronym of which you refer to?
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          I don't see how Teacher Professional collaboration in the the Secondary School junior cycle can help.... https://ncca.ie/en/junior-cycle/asse.../slar-meetings

                          Unless you want to provide a link to an alternative version of the acronym of which you refer to?
                          Side Looking Radar, it is used for pollution detection

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            Side Looking Radar, it is used for pollution detection
                            Side Looking Airborne Radar

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              I don't see how Teacher Professional collaboration in the the Secondary School junior cycle can help.... https://ncca.ie/en/junior-cycle/asse.../slar-meetings

                              Unless you want to provide a link to an alternative version of the acronym of which you refer to?
                              https://www.aerodata.de/fileadmin/us...adar-Flyer.pdf

                              A SLAR is normally able to track wakes so it should be something that deter Narco-subs

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                              • #75
                                I suppose it’s OPSEC to ask if the new PC-12’s can do that?
                                'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                                'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                                Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                                He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                                http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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