Originally posted by EUFighter
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Pilatus PC-9M Replacement.
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Originally posted by Auldsod View PostMalta too. Few if not all of the Baltics too.
Do we really want to compare ourselves as a country with Malta? All 316 Sq/Km of it? A spot in the Med a tenth of the size of County Clare?For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by na grohmiti View PostYou are. The notion that it would "break us" is a myth. We play the "poor mouth" internationally when in reality we have a strong economy, good quality of life and a healthy balance of payments. Smaller nations can operate aircrafts of all types as required. We are the only EU state without such aircraft. We wouldnt have been allowed into the Eurozone if we didn't have comparable economies. The costs are well covered on other threads, but Ireland historically since the mid 90s has chosen to reduce defence spending, year on year, giving justification of a "benign security risk profile internationally" during , in no particular order of importance, The Balkan Wars, 9/11 and the war on terror, Islamic terrorist "lone wolf" attacks on European cities, a refugee crisis in the Med, and all while the Russian air force and navy frequently carry out manoeuvres, unhindered in waters and airspace where we are supposed to have responsibility. But hey, "benign security risk profile"
"Benign Security Threat Profile" Of course we have a low threat level , the Far reaches of Europe, maybe spend more on Maritime Security
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Originally posted by DeV View PostI meant the argument between a basic civvy aircraft and a basic military (potentially armed) Trainer
It could be argued that the basic training could be performed by an approved civil agencies. The very first step for a lot of USAF pilots is at one of the many civil training schools.
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Originally posted by EUFighter View PostLooking at the USAF training of pilots they do not even have weapons on the T-38. The added benefit of weapons on a basic trainer is little, better to spend the money on other capabilities.
It could be argued that the basic training could be performed by an approved civil agencies. The very first step for a lot of USAF pilots is at one of the many civil training schools.
On the weapons argument, when we don’t have much maybe it is better to have as much as possible armed (even if just MGs and unguided rockets). Even the Rockets had rockets at one time
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In the Irish case, the PC-9 is the start and stop of the armed foodchain so the weapons experience is relevant to the aircraft. In the case of the USAF, the cadet has gone through three aircraft types before he or she gets to a warplane and learns to fire weapons so it's not like for like. The Irish don't use a screener aircraft nor do they employ civil instructors (except external simulator services or recurrency for things like Learjets), unlike most air arms. The Americans and UK have used civilian flight schools since before WW 2 and now the UK air arms are almost totally civilianised for any aircraft that doesnt enter the combat theatres. It's not an easy thing to do, to decide what system to use, to generate pilots and aircrew.
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Originally posted by DeV View PostPotentially
On the weapons argument, when we don’t have much maybe it is better to have as much as possible armed (even if just MGs and unguided rockets). Even the Rockets had rockets at one time
Equipment should fit with the need rather than just replacing some capability from the past. If the IAC is to provide fixed wing CAS support to the Army then the aircraft should be suitable. There are several on the market such as the AT-6B and the A-29 (EMB-314). Both these are based on a turbo-prop trainer but have been considerably changed. The A-29 has additional cockpit armour, targeting EO turret, built-in machine guns and the ability to drop precision guided weapons as well as the traditional bombs and rockets. But if such equipment is added then so must the ability and willingness to use it.
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When it comes to tokenism, don't forget that for a period of time in the 70s, the only naval presence Ireland had was an officer with a BAP on a merchant vessel.
Tokenism when it comes to defence is nothing new.
I struggle to think of any scenario where the Armed PC9M would use its weapons in anger, either at home or abroad. If a soldier on the ground, or a naval gunner at sea fires a similar weapon, they do so from a position of cover.
The aircraft provides zero cover from view and even less cover from fire.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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There seems to be two ways of going about it -
1. decide what tasks you want the plane for and buy what’s best for those tasks
or
2. buy what’s easiest / cheapest and then write the operational profile to suit that purchase.
I wonder which pathway it will be?'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html
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Originally posted by Flamingo View PostThere seems to be two ways of going about it -
1. decide what tasks you want the plane for and buy what’s best for those tasks
or
2. buy what’s easiest / cheapest and then write the operational profile to suit that purchase.
I wonder which pathway it will be?
If we are only training fixed wing pilots to go onto the C-295 & PC12 platforms do we need all the performance?
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