Defence Forces Artillery

[gibedepusib0ss]

I know a fair bit of this is opsec, but what can you guys tell me about our artillery units?

What's the make up for each brigade? It's all 105mm, right?

[Rhodes]

I know a fair bit of this is opsec, but what can you guys tell me about our artillery units?

What's the make up for each brigade? It's all 105mm, right?

The DF website has a page on artillery.
http://www.military.ie/army/organisa...orps/artillery

The artillery units are:
1 Field Artillery Regiment
2 Field Artillery Regiment
4 Field Artillery Regiment
1 Air Defence Regiment

[gibedepusib0ss]

Does the arty deploy overseas at all? Or can gunners just go over as riflemen?

[Goldie fish]

They used to deploy 120mm Mortars to UNIFIL in the past.

[DeV]

According to a fairly recent An Cosantoir article each PDF FAR has 1 heavy mortar battery and all RDF FARs are completed equipped with the 120.

In the past as Goldie says the artillery deployed the Brandt 120 with UNIFIL.

In the present, the gunners man the mortar platoon (81) overseas - in the same article there was talk of deploying the 120 again but not sure if it has been done

[gibedepusib0ss]

Got ya. Just looking at this - http://www.military.ie/army/weapons - it has the 81mm marked as a coy level weapon. At home, is it an infantry mans job?

[Barry]

The new 120s are deployed overseas

[DeV]

Got ya. Just looking at this - http://www.military.ie/army/weapons - it has the 81mm marked as a coy level weapon. At home, is it an infantry mans job?

No it doesn't.... it says 60 mortar is a coy level weapon and 81 is battalion level, all the weapons mentioned on that page are normally operated by the infantry.

[mercurydoc]

No it doesn't.... it says 60 mortar is a coy level weapon and 81 is battalion level, all the weapons mentioned on that page are normally operated by the infantry.

Artillery Regiments Also fire 81mm in 2 formats:

1. The Brandt LBLM 81mm

2. The 120mm\81mm MS ( RUAG M87)

An 81mm insert sub calibre barrel is slipped into the 120mm Barrel and fires 81mm

[RoyalGreenJacket]

Artillery Regiments Also fire 81mm in 2 formats:

1. The Brandt LBLM 81mm

2. The 120mm\81mm MS ( RUAG M87)

An 81mm insert sub calibre barrel is slipped into the 120mm Barrel and fires 81mm

but aren't those weapons mortars not artillery?

so why are the artillery firing them and not the infantry?

i know gunners who would never resign themselves to be called mortarmen, and i know mortarmen who see themselves as far superior to gunners by being able to provide such close support to their infantry brothers.

i know it's just a name - but mortars are mortars, despite their larger calibre in some instances.

[DeV]

A 120mm mortar is a poor mans 155mm, it is artillery and always has been in Ireland (although I think the French use it at battalion level).

The artillery train on the 81, as they man the mortar platoons overseas with the weapon (means that the infantry don't have to provide the personnel).

As mercurydoc says the RUAG 120 comes with a barrel insert that allows (cheaper) 81 rounds to be fired from a 120.

The infanty also man and fire the 81..... at home.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

The infanty also man and fire the 81..... at home.

doesn't that mean these should be the people manning and firing it overseas where it surely matters most?

why would anyone join the Mortar Platoon at home only to be replaced by a load of Gunners when on Operations?

train as you fight, fight as you train.

[morpheus]

is this to do with us not deploying atomic self sufficient companies and battalions overseas but rather building them ad hoc before deploying them?

[Goldie fish]

doesn't that mean these should be the people manning and firing it overseas where it surely matters most?

why would anyone join the Mortar Platoon at home only to be replaced by a load of Gunners when on Operations?

train as you fight, fight as you train.

You don't get the choice which platoon, you go where you are sent, if you don't complete the weapon courses, you get sent elsewhere.
Is this another "BA are better" ramble?
If you want non mechanised infantry to lug about a 120mm mortar, its baseplate, tripod and ammo you need to have your head examined.
Unless you can show me british infantrymen who do it.

That said, there is an argument for making all artillery elements of a support company within an infantry bn. Buth thats a whole other story.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

Is this another "BA are better" ramble?

If you want non mechanised infantry to lug about a 120mm mortar, its baseplate, tripod and ammo you need to have your head examined.
Unless you can show me british infantrymen who do it.

no Goldie - it's nothing to do with the British Army or what we do - it's about Mortars and the Artillery. Mortars are for Infantrymen, Artillery is for Gunners.

so i don't see why you have Infantrymen on the Mortars at home to be replaced by Gunners on Operations.

[edited to prevent any bitching]

[Mr. Tezza]

Does the arty deploy overseas at all? Or can gunners just go over as riflemen?

Yes, not sure of the particulars but my mate was a gunner and went overseas to Liberia presume it was as a support/heavy weapons coy but don't know for sure

[paul g]

most militaries who use 120mm mortars have them as an artillery weapon, crewed by artillery personnel, the USMC and the french spring to mind for example.

The Danes have just bought a load of 120mm mortars for deploymewnt to afghanistan and again crew them with lads from artillery units

[DeV]

no Goldie - it's nothing to do with the British Army or what we do - it's about Mortars and the Artillery. Mortars are for Infantrymen, Artillery is for Gunners.

so i don't see why you have Infantrymen on the Mortars at home to be replaced by Gunners on Operations.

[edited to prevent any bitching]

most militaries who use 120mm mortars have them as an artillery weapon, crewed by artillery personnel, the USMC and the french spring to mind for example.

The Danes have just bought a load of 120mm mortars for deploymewnt to afghanistan and again crew them with lads from artillery units

A heavy mortar (ie a 120) is an artillery weapons. Light (60) and medium (81) mortars are infantry weapons.

RGJ, if a member of the DF wishes to extend their contract they have to serve overseas.... this means that members of the Artillery Corps can get the chance to serve overseas as the chances of us deploying a battery with the UN are slim..... although there is provision for it in the palette of forces.

[RoyalGreenJacket]

fair one Dev, and Paul G - thanks for the clarity and throwing some light on the subject.

[Archimedes]

no Goldie - it's nothing to do with the British Army or what we do - it's about Mortars and the Artillery. Mortars are for Infantrymen, Artillery is for Gunners.

so i don't see why you have Infantrymen on the Mortars at home to be replaced by Gunners on Operations.

The Irish Arty Corps took this view for a while after we got rid of the Brandt 120s. Fine, the heavy mortar was easy to move around but it was short ranged, relatively inaccurate and ugly (a bit like the cav). As such, the gentlemen of the corps treated the mortar with the distain normally reserved for the cav. The corps concentrated on the L118/L119 (of which numbers are limited) while retaining the 25pr for training purposes.

This was all fine in theory but the government wasn't willing to deploy any of these weapons operationally so the arty ended up deploying with 81mm mortars. The higher ups in the arty world reckoned that pretty soon, the bean counters might start wondering why have the arty at all if the inf can fire the 81. The 120 mortar became our friend again.

Just in time too as we ran out of parts for the 25prs and if the large batch of previously owned 120s hadn't come along, rdf arty would have died in the short term and without rdf support for courses etc, pdf arty mightn't have been far behind.

The 17km from an L118 is in a different class to the 8km from the Ruag 120 but the skills required in terms of OP, CP, survey, signals and deployments generally are much the same. Maybe soon, the higher ups will deploy the L118 operationally and give our troops the increased protection offered by the superior weapon (the French brought the Caesar 155mm to the Leb) but until then the 120mm will continue to be our main raison d'etre.

[ExGnr]

doesn't that mean these should be the people manning and firing it overseas where it surely matters most?

why would anyone join the Mortar Platoon at home only to be replaced by a load of Gunners when on Operations?

train as you fight, fight as you train.

Many of the skills associated with Arty such as laying etc would obviously be transferable between Mortars and Light Arty like the 105.
Since the Arty units are training in these skills all year round they would naturally more highly skilled than Infantry men who are not Arty specialists.

Overseas we would want our best covering all the required bases so naturally the Arty man the 81's overseas.

[ExGnr]

I heard the 2 FAR are the unofficial elite of the Arty .

[DeV]

The 17km from an L118 is in a different class to the 8km from the Ruag 120 but the skills required in terms of OP, CP, survey, signals and deployments generally are much the same. Maybe soon, the higher ups will deploy the L118 operationally and give our troops the increased protection offered by the superior weapon (the French brought the Caesar 155mm to the Leb) but until then the 120mm will continue to be our main raison d'etre.

But the 120 has a much bigger danger area in comparsion to the 105, twice the size!

http://fileserver.4pm.ie/Upload/15/15282-bjl.pdf

page 16 & 17

[ExGnr]

There are also rocket propelled 12mm rounds available.

On a side note,
Apparently the south Africans used to pour some petrol into the barrel for added propulsion of their 120mm rounds....crazy feckers.

[Archimedes]

The 105 shell is a bit heavier but the 120 round contains a bit more HE as the steel walls of the mortar round don't need to be as thick. When it comes to effect on the ground, they are fairly similar.

Range is the king though. A 120 can cover approx 200 sq km, the L118 can cover over 900sq km - thats a lot of ground. The L118 also has higher accuracy, higher rate of fire (bipods on the Ruag jump a lot) as well as a 360 degree arc of fire without messing with a baseplate.