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  • #76
    Budget shouldn't be an issue for us, we have the largest budget surplus in Europe, it's the will to change and look at different options that's the issue
    "Why am I using a new putter? Because the last one didn't float too well." -Craig Stadler

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    • #77
      Originally posted by gaff85 View Post
      Budget shouldn't be an issue for us, we have the largest budget surplus in Europe, it's the will to change and look at different options that's the issue
      Unfortunately it is

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      • #78
        Originally posted by DeV View Post

        As I said we can’t afford it without a massive increase in defence spending.

        Any move towards conscription and Government might as well resign because they wouldn’t be in power for the foreseeable after that.

        Radical action required, like the organisational culture and State treating their soldiers, sailors and air crew as human beings and treating them appropriately
        Are we a sovereign nation because if we are to be then we are responsible for the defence of the nation. And in todays world that is interconnected that goes beyond just defending the border! It means standing together with the other free nations to protect the freedoms and prosperity we all enjoy. Too long the political parties in this country have run down the importance of defence. They have seen the men and women as a cheap source of labour, as something so we can get a seat on the UNSC but nothing else.

        The debate needs to be open and honest and today it needs at least to be in an European contect. How long will the other members put up with one nation not pulling its fair share of the burden??? Remember the other major non-NATO member, Austria, does pull its weight. If we are not prepared to do that we should give up the pretense to have a military as having one evokes the expectation of others that we can perform military functions. We can give it all up, fishery protect we can then outsource to a private company and we can withdraw our claim beyond the EEZ as we cannot enforce that.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by EUFighter View Post

          Are we a sovereign nation because if we are to be then we are responsible for the defence of the nation. And in todays world that is interconnected that goes beyond just defending the border! It means standing together with the other free nations to protect the freedoms and prosperity we all enjoy. Too long the political parties in this country have run down the importance of defence. They have seen the men and women as a cheap source of labour, as something so we can get a seat on the UNSC but nothing else.

          The debate needs to be open and honest and today it needs at least to be in an European contect. How long will the other members put up with one nation not pulling its fair share of the burden??? Remember the other major non-NATO member, Austria, does pull its weight. If we are not prepared to do that we should give up the pretense to have a military as having one evokes the expectation of others that we can perform military functions. We can give it all up, fishery protect we can then outsource to a private company and we can withdraw our claim beyond the EEZ as we cannot enforce that.
          “Irish neutrality” or “militarily neutral” (whatever they may be) or (actual) neutrality doesn’t stop the calling out of wrong doers.

          Prevention of conflict and de-escalation is better than war, that has to involve deterrence as well. if we can’t agree on that there is something seriously wrong.

          Our approach of an international rules based multilateralism isn’t wrong (and tbh as a small open economy that is economically dependent on others has been proven time and again to be necessary) however:

          (a) it doesn’t extend to rules required of “neutral powers” which we claim to be and breach

          (b) doesn’t take account of the fact that some State (and non-State) actors don’t sign up to that (eg Trump, Boris, Brexit Britain, Russia)

          (c) doesn’t mean we aren’t a target and don’t need to provide for our own defence



          CODF has (maybe unintentionally), quite rightly, started to decouple the questions of defence of the State and “neutrality”.

          Do we want to defend the State is a different question to what forces do we need to defend the State.

          “Neutrality” / EU Common Defence / NATO is really a Foreign Affairs (rather than Defence) question - EU / NATO doesn’t mean you get to reduce your force posture - if anything it means you have to increase it and make it more deployable (externally)


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          • #80
            The problem with conscription is that you have to filter out the can't, don't or won't lot from the willing. Every single country that has had conscription, even in wartime, cannot use all of the technically available man/woman power because a lot of people are fundamentally unsuited to Military service. If you follow the example of the Nordic countries, they filter out those who will not serve in the "teeth" arms by offering them alternative service and there are still many people who will use the utmost creativity to avoid any compulsory service. I'd prefer a properly funded and used Reserve Arm for all three services.

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