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  1. #76
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    How are NSR units independent?

  2. #77
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    which is another reason it all needs burning to the ground - its nothing to do with the "local unit" anymore. Every single sub-unit now ( before we go anywhere else) is part of a PDF unit HQ'd in a manned post NSR being about the only exception for one of their Units.
    I should have said convenient rather than local, no point in someone who lives and works in Kerry going to Dublin

    As you say, every single unit in the DF is HQ’ed in an occupied post. But there are currently 16 sub-units who aren’t.

    This situation is so stupid you have to get the GP register as a DOD supplier , it is all handwaving from D MED who CAN NOT be bothered to deal with reservists who are just as entitled by regulation as PDF to be examined. Is any of that being looked at for the RDF ? No. Its the biggest block to recruiting.

    Like I said - burn it all to the ground.
    that isn’t just a RDF problem. Not sure if they have allowed RDF trained audiogram operators (who used to do it) and doctors to do medicals yet.

    I work in a highly regulated industry and if our admin process was like the DF we would be bankrupt.



    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    Parade nights/ field day etc not allowed under level 5. Some RDF in JTF and some driving details to my knowledge.
    Aviva and other duties too

    Quote Originally Posted by batterysgt View Post
    Every single sub-unit now ( before we go anywhere else) is part of a PDF unit HQ'd in a manned post NSR being about the only exception for one of their Units.
    3rd Bn have a company based in Waterford so they are the same but for the 45min drive to Kilkenny barracks.
    16 sub units plus WUNSR outside occupied posts

  3. #78
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Sub-units outside occupied posts:

    Letterkenny
    Sligo
    Boyle
    Castlebar
    Cavan
    Mullingar
    Navan
    Bray (since transferred to Council, Coy moved to CBB)
    Wexford
    Waterford (also WUNSR)
    Templemore
    Mallow
    Skibbereen
    Tralee (is occupied but not in the normal sense)
    Ennis
    Clifden

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  5. #79
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    But there are currently 16 sub-units who aren’t.
    You know I know this. It's not the point.

    The point is that those sub-units are all part of a barrack-based unit that has to deal with the issue of having part of its strength elsewhere and its focus is on its own mission.

    Its a huge drag for no return to the parent ( or very little compared to the barracks-based subs).

    Fado fado stuff and tea drinking get rid of them all and you cant do it without burning it to the ground or everyone will just hark back to the shite old days when you could stand in a door

    It cannot continue. Rearranging Deckchairs on the Titanic ( new R5) , keeping rural subs, keeping any infantry subs at all ( and I'm a long time infantryman)

    Without this harsh action the 'what are they good for' question will always remain

    I'm on the phone to the unit a couple of times a week and unless you can help them with their (** our) problems then they're cordial and its a short call . PDF have a crapton of work and their numbers are brutal in the specialists due to shite pay terms and conditions . Thats the reality of service today as a reservist
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  7. #80
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The main problem is majority of (very understandable) PDF personnel (Bde Manpower, gym staff, doctors, medics, etc) don’t want to work at the weekend for zero extra pay. In some places in fairness they pull out the stops and it works.
    Well, that one is easily solved - give them a day off during the week in lieu. If you mean an allowance for working Sat and Sun, why? I was never aware that the army was 9-5 Mon-Fri. (The Air Corps may be a different matter )
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  9. #81
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Well, that one is easily solved - give them a day off during the week in lieu. If you mean an allowance for working Sat and Sun, why? I was never aware that the army was 9-5 Mon-Fri. (The Air Corps may be a different matter )
    There was a time when doing that kind of work would attract a nice allowance not anymore

    Except many of those are so busy that if they do the RDF work and/or take a DiL it is PDF work that isn’t getting done.

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  11. #82
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    You know I know this. It's not the point.

    The point is that those sub-units are all part of a barrack-based unit that has to deal with the issue of having part of its strength elsewhere and its focus is on its own mission.

    Its a huge drag for no return to the parent ( or very little compared to the barracks-based subs).

    Fado fado stuff and tea drinking get rid of them all and you cant do it without burning it to the ground or everyone will just hark back to the shite old days when you could stand in a door

    It cannot continue. Rearranging Deckchairs on the Titanic ( new R5) , keeping rural subs, keeping any infantry subs at all ( and I'm a long time infantryman)

    Without this harsh action the 'what are they good for' question will always remain

    I'm on the phone to the unit a couple of times a week and unless you can help them with their (** our) problems then they're cordial and its a short call . PDF have a crapton of work and their numbers are brutal in the specialists due to shite pay terms and conditions . Thats the reality of service today as a reservist
    They shouldn’t have been left in 2013 IMHO but that was a political decision.

    At the very least grat should have been retained (increased IMHO) to offset it, aid retention and allow for much increased expectations (with no additional resources).

    Infantry units are no less short of people and sometimes it is manpower rather than tech skills required, but remember the infantryman can also have a 154, be a MFR, Regimental Signaller etc etc
    Last edited by DeV; 19th January 2021 at 16:03.

  12. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Well, that one is easily solved - give them a day off during the week in lieu. If you mean an allowance for working Sat and Sun, why? I was never aware that the army was 9-5 Mon-Fri. (The Air Corps may be a different matter )
    Come on now. 9-4 mon-thurs, 9-3:45 fri.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  14. #84
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There was a time when doing that kind of work would attract a nice allowance not anymore

    Except many of those are so busy that if they do the RDF work and/or take a DiL it is PDF work that isn’t getting done.
    Then how do they take Leave, sick or any other day during the week? If people don't want to do something they will always find an excuse not to, especially if management also don't want the hassle. It applies to any organisation.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  15. #85
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Come on now. 9-4 mon-thurs, 9-3:45 fri.
    And half-day Wednesday for sports...
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  17. #86
    Sergeant Major Auldsod's Avatar
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    We seem to be going down the well worn path of identifying the malaise that currently exists and possibly always did exist in the RDF.

    It seems the most agreed on point is that moving to a one weekend a month structure would get the most benefit from any time our resources invested in the reserve.

    On a personal level, justifying being gone two full days once a month is a whole lot easier than four evenings throughout the month. I commute 30-40 min each way and generally show early on parade nights so it would be win win for me. Also possibly easier on family life if all is well planned.

    I just hope similar input is presented by whoever is providing feedback for the reserve to the Commission (RDFRA?). I'd wonder if there are too many sacred cows that some within the reserve aren't willing to slaughter. I also worry when I see so much time being invested into this EUROMIL nonsense when there is so much to do closer to home......

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  19. #87
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    We seem to be going down the well worn path of identifying the malaise that currently exists and possibly always did exist in the RDF.

    It seems the most agreed on point is that moving to a one weekend a month structure would get the most benefit from any time our resources invested in the reserve.

    On a personal level, justifying being gone two full days once a month is a whole lot easier than four evenings throughout the month. I commute 30-40 min each way and generally show early on parade nights so it would be win win for me. Also possibly easier on family life if all is well planned.

    I just hope similar input is presented by whoever is providing feedback for the reserve to the Commission (RDFRA?). I'd wonder if there are too many sacred cows that some within the reserve aren't willing to slaughter. I also worry when I see so much time being invested into this EUROMIL nonsense when there is so much to do closer to home......
    In fairness, nothing to stop a unit/sub-unit going from training parades to 1 weekend a month (I know of one which has)

    But then add in courses, exercises, competitions, rehearsals and other taskings. There has been occasions during my service when I was in uniform 6 weekends out of 8 (plus weekly training parades).
    Last edited by DeV; 19th January 2021 at 19:53.

  20. #88
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    Go back to the Chief of Staff and ask him out straight; does he support the retention of a Reserve or not? If he does not, then it will wither on the vine and he will get a pat on the back for cost-saving.

  21. #89
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Go back to the Chief of Staff and ask him out straight; does he support the retention of a Reserve or not?
    In his RTE interview last week he clearly called out Tech Enabled Defence bolstered by the RDF. Thats not the same as saying retain the RDF in its current form.



    Moving on we've had at least in the last 21+ years

    2000 RDFRIB
    2000 White Paper
    2005 Reorg
    2008 Integrated Reserve
    2012 Reorg
    Bord Snip ( Cutting the Grat really helped numbers).
    2015 White Paper
    2019 White Paper Update

    ------------------------------------------

    All have played with the dials but none have actually done anything . Numbers, apart from a tiny couple of jumps, have been on a tremendous slide since.
    Commission on the Future for Defence
    Last edited by trellheim; 20th January 2021 at 01:22.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  22. #90
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Come on now. 9-4 mon-thurs, 9-3:45 fri.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    And half-day Wednesday for sports...
    Come and work in any DF Bks at the moment and realise how flippant and derisive those comments are.

    Our people are meeting themselves coming off Covid Tasks which are more often than not seven day a week ones.On top of keeping the Barracks secure, meeting TRRs and being on call for ATCP tasks.

    You two are seriously out of touch if you think that what ye stated is even close to the current state of play
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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  24. #91
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Of course not, I was being flippant. Sorry, no offence intended.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  26. #92
    BQMS spider pig's Avatar
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    Well said apod.

    I don’t think people realize how stretched we are. Trying to meet Covid tastings, which can literally be upped at a moments notice , regimental duties , TRRs to keep career courses going. Not to mention dealing with Covid inside the organization.

    It’s that busy at my call sign rest off for certain tasks is an utter privilege. 72hr+ ATCA task straight into duty.

    Courses have to continue in order to facilitate overseas.

    There’s no let up.
    Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face

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  28. #93
    C/S koppiteal's Avatar
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    The RDF could probably be used for some taskings to help take pressure off.
    Ive done a stint at the Aviva last year and wouldnt mind doing a couple of duties to let the people who are flat out have a breather.
    But my BN doesnt seem to want to use us for anything

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  30. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Come and work in any DF Bks at the moment and realise how flippant and derisive those comments are.

    Our people are meeting themselves coming off Covid Tasks which are more often than not seven day a week ones.On top of keeping the Barracks secure, meeting TRRs and being on call for ATCP tasks.

    You two are seriously out of touch if you think that what ye stated is even close to the current state of play
    Of course that's not what I believe. You should know me better than that. It may be 10 years since I wore a uniform, but I pass a working barracks daily, and it is clear to all that the phrase "do more with less" is being tested to the absolute by the DF.
    However, my profession is ridiculed on an almost daily basis on this site and you don't see me getting upset.
    Everyone in the employ of the state is getting shit on at present. Normal rules and conditions of service have gone out the window without discussion, as normal chain of command goes out the window.
    But we are all links in the chain. Without my organisation giving 150%, your organisation and the state would soon cease to function. Without your organisation meeting themselves coming off duty, mine would cease to function.
    Apologies if we try to see the lighter side now and again. I didn't realise that was also not permitted during the lickdown.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  32. #95
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Yes, for sure. My point was there is no independent units any more since 2012 bar NSR. Everyone reports up into a PDF Unit.

    Not technically true. The NSR come under Shore Operations unit.

    The OC of the reserve is OC Shore Operations, a Commander (Lt Col equiv)

    He has the same authority over the NSR as any other Sub-Unit in S OPS.

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  34. #96
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    Not technically true. The NSR come under Shore Operations unit.

    The OC of the reserve is OC Shore Operations, a Commander (Lt Col equiv)

    He has the same authority over the NSR as any other Sub-Unit in S OPS.
    NSR units are units (as defined by DFR R5) (as opposed to sub-units)

    They are legally units under Shore Ops

  35. #97
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Dev tells most of the story there.

    No other RDF 'grouping' can call itself LUNSR or WUNSR . All the others are part of a Single Force unit e.g. D Coy 7 Bn , 1 MIC AR , 2 CAV AR, 1 BAR AR . This has been the case since 2012. It is not intended to mean that NSR are not part of the Defence Forces and do not have a chain of command and reporting structure like all the others.


    The RDF could probably be used for some taskings to help take pressure off.
    And that's happening. I mentioned this up-thread. But you can't let it be used to dictate long term manning needs (for the PDF) . Neither is it a viable path for the main existence of the RDF.
    Last edited by trellheim; 21st January 2021 at 10:38.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  37. #98
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    So the NSR unit OC is reasonable fo the unit, same as a PDF unit OC. That's a lot of work for the NSR as all unit administration is their responsibility ie H & S, SOP's, OpOrds etc etc.

    Pity I only have a few years left and am to old or might consider a transfer to Dublin Unit, their OC is a former MP!
    Last edited by batterysgt; 21st January 2021 at 11:25.

  38. #99
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    their OC is a former MP!
    and before being a PA, a member of my old unit as well.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  39. #100
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    Is his spouse still serving?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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