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  • Originally posted by Aidan View Post
    ...........

    *Edit; While we're on the subject, a useful way forward would be a further purchase of 139s (or 149s), with the eventual aim of operating a type like the NH-90 in the middle of the next decade, so the heli fleet would be of the order of 10 EC135/635s, 10 AW139/149 and 4-6 NH-90s. If you're going to Walter, you might as well do it in style.
    Aidan,

    Just wondering/waltering, if you're going to add a medium lift heli to the AC fleet, I know the NH90 is an excellent machine, but does it give you sufficient additional lift capability (20 troops) compared to the AW139? Would 4-6 Eurocopter Cougars - each carrying up to 29 troops - be an alternative?

    Perhaps in determining numbers, it would help to define the operational requirement, e.g. land one company with support weapons and supplies for X days, all in one lift?

    Comment


    • Perhaps in determining numbers, it would help to define the operational requirement, e.g. land one company with support weapons and supplies for X days, all in one lift?
      Of course it would, but I'm waltering, and that removes any requirement for a rational procurement process.

      The process would have to be tiered (as it already is), with the strategic context set by Govt through a White Paper, and with the required operational capacity and timelines defined by the DF and DOD across the PDF (in coordination with our allies). All of this takes years, as you well know. Only when a political decision is in place on the general strategic position, and on the course of action for the next planning period, would the procurement process begin, which would involve, at the very outset, an evaluation of the cost benefit ratio of various options (in terms of numbers of airframes required, the capacity of each, support costs and various other procurement options), and outline discussions with D/Fin around indicative budgets. Then you can start work on tender documents with very precise requirements.

      Given that I don't have that information, I couldn't possibly say what would be the most appropriate airframe - I just used the NH-90 as shorthand for the next capacity ramp up. It could well be that the AC/DOD would just prefer another AW-139/149 buy. Who knows.

      Comment


      • Well, I made a post the other day about the future of the Irish Air Corps and it evidently was a bit too "straightforward". I'd really like to see something done about the lack of actual air muscle in the Air Corps. Where's the jets? Why doesn't the Air Corps have at least something along the lines of a Fouga still? You need to have some kind of interceptor aircraft at the least. I think some Hawk 200's would be an excellent type to implement. they're small, maneuverable, well armed - they can be armed with Sidewinders, or Exocet anti-shipping missiles, and they have some form of auto cannon I belive. 20mm sounds about right...... :/ Dunno. It's really sad though that there is only a bunch of minesterial aircraft and some helicopters floating around whilst the PC-9's trainers train pilots for - what? You can't train a soldier to do something and then never give him the tool to do it with. It's not right, and makes no sense whatsoever. Ireland needs to have some form of aerial defence in the actual air, not just the land based Bofors and Giraffe SAM systems.
        Solution for an idiot: frontline infantry.

        Comment


        • Buddy, well intentioned, but seriously, do you think that you are the first to suggest that? No fault to you but look back through all of the discussions on the board. IT AINT HAPPENING!!! Until this country realises that Non aligned is not the same as Neutral, we will always be in the descendancy.

          Comment


          • Well, I just joined only a short while ago, and I haven't had the time to browse through all of the posts about this topic. All I wanted was a short summarized condensed soup answer. I have only just now browsed through all the posts for this topic and I apologize for being such a DA.

            I'll try my best to do my homework before any more questions.
            Solution for an idiot: frontline infantry.

            Comment


            • AW149 'to fly in months' says AgustaWestland's Orsi

              February 22, 2009

              AgustaWestland has announced that the latest member of the AgustaWestland family of helicopters, the AW149 will "make its first flight in months." In a brief statement about future rotorcraft developments at the company during a press conference at Heli-Expo in Anaheim, California, CEO Giuseppe Orsi said the aircraft would fly in the coming months of 2009.

              Mr Orsi would not be drawn on further comment on the subject and would not talk about orders for the type but it is understood that the prototype is being prepared for flight in Italy, and is not dis-similar from the single artist's impression released by the company at Farnborough 2006 which suggests the aircraft is essentially an enlarged version of the popular AW139.



              This is the first public update on the development of the AW149 since the Farnborough Airshow in 2006. Originally planned to be a wholly military programme, emphasis changed last year when it was revealed the customer base had widened to include governmental and public-utility uses.

              The company's website says that the AW149 will be optimised for military operations and will be able to carry up to 15 troops in crashworthy seats. It will features a five-blade main rotor for low vibration and noise levels and will have a cruise speed of 160 knots. The large cabin features large sliding doors allowing easy access for troops and the loading of large bulky equipment. The aircraft will be capable of being equipped with a range of weapons on the external carriers for armed escort and armed suppression roles. A range of role equipment will allow the aircraft to be configured for roles such as search and rescue, command and control, medical evacuation and external load lifting.

              The company is also keeping further information on the XX9 helicopter project - revealed at the 2008 Farnborough Airshow - close to its chest.
              You will never have a quiet world until you knock the patriotism out of the human race

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fireplace View Post
                Mr Orsi would not be drawn on further comment on the subject and would not talk about orders for the type but it is understood that the prototype is being prepared for flight in Italy, and is not dis-similar from the single artist's impression released by the company at Farnborough 2006 which suggests the aircraft is essentially an enlarged version of the popular AW139

                That was my reaction too when I saw the picture - what's the difference between this
                and the AW139 ?

                Also looks somewhat like a Westland Lynx...
                "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                Comment


                • Does the door fall off? We only want it if the door falls off. Keep the fekin ministers away from them...


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • Completely off topic. Link to Flight Global archive story from 1973 about how the MB326 was selected as a replacement for the Vampire (although the Jet Provost is mentioned in a later article), and of the likely purchase of a Westland Commando as a medium lift heli for the army.

                    http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchi...%20Air%20Corps
                    Last edited by Aidan; 21 April 2009, 22:00.

                    Comment


                    • just a thought but the usaf have retired the MH-53 Pave Low Heavy-lift helicopter in september 08
                      why dont the don see if a couple of these be picked up on the cheep.
                      Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                      Comment


                      • just a thought but the usaf have retired the MH-53 Pave Low Heavy-lift helicopter in september 08
                        why dont the don see if a couple of these be picked up on the cheep.

                        the MH 53s are reworked HH53s and CH53's airframes the vast majority dating back to the 70s and are probably knackered.

                        they also require tankers to have any credible range so while a nice idea and could be had on the cheap, not really a viable option.
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • they also have the STOL C-23 Sherpa soon to be replaced and for Maritime patrol the p3 orion also soon to be replaced and the Swedish air force is replacing the CH-46 Sea Knight i know there old but still good aircraft and if spairs are available we can get them cheep and use them for a few years
                          Last edited by madmark; 21 April 2009, 23:55.
                          Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                          Comment


                          • Sherpa is a version of the shorts 330 airliner and had sevre cross wind limits caused by the blanking of twin tails in high cross winds thus caused reduced control. Within the Irish AC no need for tyem. Again a 1983 procuremnt by the yanks too old.

                            the Orion is a dedicated ASW aircraft and not maritime patrolas we know it, old thirtsy with limited abilities, based on the Lockheed electra airliner but rebuilt as P3s . Most would suffer corrosion problems realted to long periods of salt water exposure., we lost two of our King Airs for the same reason.

                            Maritime patrol aircraft have a very definite life span, for maritime patrol aircraft these are possibly beyond that.

                            AC won't go down the road of refurbished aircraft especially of the types mention, logistic nightmare.

                            Mate of min worked on Electras for some years with Air Traders, rotten, shouldn't even be flying, short haul freight was about the only use for the aircraft withas tronomical fuel costs.
                            Last edited by hptmurphy; 21 April 2009, 23:59.
                            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                            Comment


                            • only trying to give options as i know fcuk all about what flies
                              Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                              Comment


                              • All options are welcome, I'm not knocking you for the sake of but historically I have been an aviation fan long before I learned about boats and armour.
                                Looking at the requirements and the variety of aircraft out there second hand and with ststed policy not to buy refurbised aircraft the arguements are a;most nul and void ever before you pst them

                                keep plugging away you may hit on something some one has neglected..at least you try.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                                Comment

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