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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Tranche 3 being the most capable and trully multi-role
    Ah the British economy is actually in a worse state than the irish one, all the articles in the British media about the feckless paddies being an excuse to disguise it.

    It appears the MOD have 3 choices

    Cancel the trident replacement- unthinkable to the British political establishment who would see it as national humiliation and loss of great power status, even thought its a white elephant

    Cancelling the carriers- Would cost labour seats in Scotland to the SNP, seats they need to retain. has been an article of faith since 1998 to build them, they've already cut 25% of their escorts to pay for them, and again great power status would be a factor, the french have a carrier, therefore so should britain

    Cancelling tranche 3 of Eurofighter,- the present ones are enough to provide air defence, and the multi-role capability is provided by the F-35, the development of which the americans are accelerating, F-35 is needed for the carriers anyway, and will be used by the americans making logistics simpler.

    Can't cut funding for the army-that is impossible with Afghanistan, indeed they are buying equipment under UORs and have already knocked the utility FRES on the head, despite the fact that its needed, as is FRES reconnaissance. therefore Eurofighter would appear to be the project they can save money on.

    From todays Ft
    UK defies Eurofighter payment calls
    By Gerrit Wiesmann in Frankfurt and Alex Barker and Sylvia Pfeifer in London

    Published: April 24 2009 20:25 | Last updated: April 24 2009 20:25

    Gordon Brown on Friday defied calls to make a £1bn (€1.1bn) payment for Eurofighter Typhoon jets as European leaders rounded on the UK prime minister for holding up the defence project.

    Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, telephoned Mr Brown this week to urge him to make a decision on funding 16 fighter jets Britain ordered through a four-nation programme conceived more than 25 years ago.

    EDITOR’S CHOICE
    UK woes threaten to delay jetfighter contract - Apr-18Minister seeks £1bn for Eurofighters - Apr-17More interventions are expected from the leaders of Italy and Spain, amid dismay over Britain’s alleged use of delaying tactics to squeeze costs.

    In spite of the high-level pressure, Mr Brown is standing his ground.

    A Downing Street spokesperson told the Financial Times: “Given other defence priorities, the prime minister has no intention of going ahead until we’re absolutely sure we have the best out of this deal.”

    German officials said the prime minister kept “his cards close to his chest” in his conversation with Ms Merkel.

    Agreement on a third production run of 236 aircraft has been held up as the UK’s Ministry of Defence and Treasury thrash out a deal over funding, against a backdrop of ballooning national debt and a stretched defence budget.

    Mr Brown’s uncompromising position is unlikely to go down well among European partner nations, who have been locked in talks for months after Britain asked to reduce its order of 88 aircraft – and escape payment of contractual penalties.

    When the original contract was signed, the UK pushed for the contractual terms to be as watertight as possible to ensure no partner nations dropped out.

    The other three nations in the programme – Italy, Spain and Germany – are making a concession by allowing the UK to count export orders to Saudi Arabia and possibly Oman towards its total order, according to defence industry experts.

    However, the UK is facing a bill of more than €1.6bn for the 16 aircraft it is still committed to buying.

    European officials are frustrated that the UK promised – but failed – to give a green light after Easter. German officials said the UK had now promised a decision by May 15.

    The German government fears that if the UK delays the go-ahead beyond the end of June, Berlin will not be in a position again to sign off on the project until well after the national elections, scheduled for September 27.
    Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009
    Last edited by paul g; 25 April 2009, 00:05.

    Comment


    • Hi there
      So will the likes of the Skyraider rise again? Lots of armour, a big engine driving a propellor, a huge weight-lifting capacity,multiple cannon and a bladder-stretching loiter endurance.......
      regards
      GttC

      Comment


      • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
        Hi there
        So will the likes of the Skyraider rise again? Lots of armour, a big engine driving a propellor, a huge weight-lifting capacity,multiple cannon and a bladder-stretching loiter endurance.......
        regards
        GttC
        As a former soldier, would rather see something you described come to my rescue when i'm being shot at by the bad guys, then any number of F-22 flying around maintaining air superiority, especially as the bad guys today and in the future won't have any fighters, but lots of 1940's infantry technology and men out of their minds on drugs and religion .

        Comment


        • So instead of new model helicopter ( excuse my terminology ) why didnt the air corps just buy a dozen sea kings ? And before you bite my face off i dont know their cost - just asking
          Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

          Comment


          • Originally posted by knocker View Post
            So instead of new model helicopter ( excuse my terminology ) why didnt the air corps just buy a dozen sea kings ? And before you bite my face off i dont know their cost - just asking

            From whom/where??

            On a different point:

            Here however is another Norweigan hand me down worth splashing out on:

            http://www.mil.no/hercules

            Dont be fooled by the age-there is a hell of a lot of flying left in these babies.

            Marshalls of Cambridge are the Hercules experts and could easily upgrade them to a glass cockpit.

            Comment


            • Jetlock

              Sorry i worded it badly, did the air corps consider sea kings when they were looking at new helicopters ?
              Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

              Comment


              • The Sea King is an old design, dating from the 1960s. They're mostly being replaced now by helicopters such as the Agusta-Westland Merlin, Sikorsky S-92, Eurocopter Cougar. There's also a case for the Russian Mi-8/Mi-17, which is the medium-lift helicopter actually used by the Army in Africa.

                Comment


                • The Air Corps used a Sea King for a short period, but i understand it was in service for over 30 years before they got it.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • Just wanted to know that if they could have got say a dozen "work horses " older type of helicopter instead of getting 6 of a new design ?
                    Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

                    Comment


                    • It was no longer a requirement.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • Hi there
                        I'd rather be in a Sea King derivative than any Mi-8.
                        regards
                        GttC

                        Comment


                        • Well i know the sea king is an old design , but arent there any upto date models available ? If there are then how do they compare in price ? Just think that 6 isnt really enough for the armys requirements
                          Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier - Samuel Johnson

                          Comment


                          • Try google and you'll be able to answer your own questions. The last time they were manufactured was about 15 years ago-a small batch for SAR to replace the Wessex.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by paul g View Post
                              Ah the British economy is actually in a worse state than the irish one, all the articles in the British media about the feckless paddies being an excuse to disguise it.

                              It appears the MOD have 3 choices

                              Cancel the trident replacement- unthinkable to the British political establishment who would see it as national humiliation and loss of great power status, even thought its a white elephant

                              Cancelling the carriers- Would cost labour seats in Scotland to the SNP, seats they need to retain. has been an article of faith since 1998 to build them, they've already cut 25% of their escorts to pay for them, and again great power status would be a factor, the french have a carrier, therefore so should britain

                              Cancelling tranche 3 of Eurofighter,- the present ones are enough to provide air defence, and the multi-role capability is provided by the F-35, the development of which the americans are accelerating, F-35 is needed for the carriers anyway, and will be used by the americans making logistics simpler.

                              Can't cut funding for the army-that is impossible with Afghanistan, indeed they are buying equipment under UORs and have already knocked the utility FRES on the head, despite the fact that its needed, as is FRES reconnaissance. therefore Eurofighter would appear to be the project they can save money on.

                              From todays Ft
                              UK defies Eurofighter payment calls
                              By Gerrit Wiesmann in Frankfurt and Alex Barker and Sylvia Pfeifer in London

                              Published: April 24 2009 20:25 | Last updated: April 24 2009 20:25

                              Gordon Brown on Friday defied calls to make a £1bn (€1.1bn) payment for Eurofighter Typhoon jets as European leaders rounded on the UK prime minister for holding up the defence project.

                              Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, telephoned Mr Brown this week to urge him to make a decision on funding 16 fighter jets Britain ordered through a four-nation programme conceived more than 25 years ago.

                              EDITOR’S CHOICE
                              UK woes threaten to delay jetfighter contract - Apr-18Minister seeks £1bn for Eurofighters - Apr-17More interventions are expected from the leaders of Italy and Spain, amid dismay over Britain’s alleged use of delaying tactics to squeeze costs.

                              In spite of the high-level pressure, Mr Brown is standing his ground.

                              A Downing Street spokesperson told the Financial Times: “Given other defence priorities, the prime minister has no intention of going ahead until we’re absolutely sure we have the best out of this deal.”

                              German officials said the prime minister kept “his cards close to his chest” in his conversation with Ms Merkel.

                              Agreement on a third production run of 236 aircraft has been held up as the UK’s Ministry of Defence and Treasury thrash out a deal over funding, against a backdrop of ballooning national debt and a stretched defence budget.

                              Mr Brown’s uncompromising position is unlikely to go down well among European partner nations, who have been locked in talks for months after Britain asked to reduce its order of 88 aircraft – and escape payment of contractual penalties.

                              When the original contract was signed, the UK pushed for the contractual terms to be as watertight as possible to ensure no partner nations dropped out.

                              The other three nations in the programme – Italy, Spain and Germany – are making a concession by allowing the UK to count export orders to Saudi Arabia and possibly Oman towards its total order, according to defence industry experts.

                              However, the UK is facing a bill of more than €1.6bn for the 16 aircraft it is still committed to buying.

                              European officials are frustrated that the UK promised – but failed – to give a green light after Easter. German officials said the UK had now promised a decision by May 15.

                              The German government fears that if the UK delays the go-ahead beyond the end of June, Berlin will not be in a position again to sign off on the project until well after the national elections, scheduled for September 27.
                              Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009
                              ...**dreams of Ireland getting a few typhoon's on the cheap**

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by paul g View Post
                                Ah the British economy is actually in a worse state than the irish one, all the articles in the British media about the feckless paddies being an excuse to disguise it.
                                you got anything to back this up?

                                everyones economy is in a bad way but to say the British economy is in a worse state than that in Ireland is extreme.

                                we don't have any recruitment ban, we don't have any promotion ban and we certainly don't have any tax levy imposed on us.

                                the UK has the second largest defence contractor in the world (BAE Systems) and massive world exports - infact Ireland is officially one of the UK's best customers and imports more UK food and beverages than any other country in the world.

                                so i don't think the media uses Ireland to disguise it's own economy - I have yet to see any campaign which states "Ireland is in a bad way but we are OK" - the UK is rated 6th in the world in terms of GDP and while it's economy is in a bad way - i'm pretty sure it will still be exporting a lot more goods per person than Ireland ever will.

                                Irelands greatest export is it's people.
                                Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 12 July 2009, 20:13.
                                RGJ

                                ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                                The Rifles

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