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  1. #26
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    Hi Mavman.
    I never said that the Don used the 172 as a screener. I bemoaned the fact that they didn't! One year, they lost 8 out of 12. I'm glad to see that the loss rates are down, but when I see bigger, more complex air forces using screeners, I don't see why we shouldn't. I spent too long fixing Marchettis after heavy landings to deny the value of screening. Obviously, cadet training is more advanced now, such as the greater use of CBT and simulation, as befits the use of an advanced trainer. If an RAF GR4 pilot starts off on a Slingsby before he gets his mitts on a Tucano, then that's good enough for me.
    regards
    GttC

  2. #27
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    I cannot disagree with what GTTC says, but, not the IAC RR 172's, any of the Cessana 152's out of Weston would be more then suitable for the job, even if [a] they cost €140/hour, and [b] ya don't get into 'em, ya put the friggin things on.
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
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  3. #28
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    But then you have to ask,why spend anything to allow student pilots advance to another trainer? If we had proper military aircraft,i could see why screeners would be a good idea...but seeing as we don't...


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  4. #29
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    According this months An Cosantoir, the AC would like to start looking for a replacement for the Rheims Rockets (the Cessna FR172).

    They will require the following:
    - more advanced turbo-prop aircraft
    - bigger cabin
    - modern avonics package
    - able to carry special equipment (eg cameras)
    - simple & cheap to operate
    - STOL capable

  5. #30
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    According to the Dail recently, there are no plans to replace the Cessnas...


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  6. #31
    2/Lt Bosco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    True. I would prefer to see 25 aircraft of six different types than 42 aircraft of 12 types.

    I still say they should get a few more CN235N type instead of flashy biz jets. I'd be willing to trade the Learjet,King air and the remaining 5 Cessnas for 3 or 4 more Standard CASAs.
    The man is speaking sense
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  7. #32
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    - more advanced turbo-prop aircraft
    - bigger cabin
    - modern avonics package
    - able to carry special equipment (eg cameras)
    - simple & cheap to operate
    - STOL capable
    Sounds like a Turbo Porter to me.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  8. #33
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    'I cannot disagree with what GTTC says, but, not the IAC RR 172's, any of the Cessana 152's out of Weston would be more then suitable for the job, even if [a] they cost'




    Rheims Rocket ain't no Cessna 152 trainer given it has a 210 hp engine...very unforgiving aircraft.......toatlly different animal to a cessna 152 or even 172....closer to the 210 centurion thaqn anythin else.....tourer more than trainer.
    Time for another break I think......

  9. #34
    criodan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I wish I did....Maybe some of the money could be spent better than it is now.
    Don't get me wrong here. I'd love to spend loads of money on a big military force and let evryone have all the latest gadgets.

    Why? what in the name of heavens would that do? why not address the road issues as already pointed out in a previous thread relating to the transportation of ARW members. transport 21 doesnt really got that far in the scheme of things.

    hospitals, prisons, police, education and on and on and on........
    Last edited by FMolloy; 31st March 2007 at 15:08.

  10. #35
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    3 Cessna Caravans would do the job perfectly.
    Wouldnt be too expensive id imagine

  11. #36
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Military Version Of Caravan
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #37
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    One of the major roles of the Cessna (and its replacement) is/will be ATCP (namely cash/prisoner escorts). This requires the ability to over fly urban areas, which according to the Special Study on the AC & NS requires 2 engines.

  13. #38
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    So more Britten Norman Islanders/Defenders on the cards?

    Cant think of another high winged, twin engined aircraft with the kind of flight characteristics so well suited to observation over built up areas, like its rediculously low stall speed.

    Although I think I vaguely remember complaints about the aircraft going tech alot in the beginning with the gardai/ac.. probably more to do with the surveillence equipment than anything.

  14. #39
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    doesn't the caravan have 2 engines, one right behind the other powering a single prop?, they are supposed to have excellent servacibility and PTOW ratio, idiot proof too


    edit sorry it was the pathfinder 21 derivative I was think about as twin engined
    Last edited by mutter nutter; 22nd December 2006 at 20:09.
    Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

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  15. #40
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    Cessna replacement?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    According this months An Cosantoir, the AC would like to start looking for a replacement for the Rheims Rockets (the Cessna FR172).

    They will require the following:
    - more advanced turbo-prop aircraft
    - bigger cabin
    - modern avonics package
    - able to carry special equipment (eg cameras)
    - simple & cheap to operate
    - STOL capable
    Did the article explain why aircraft with those features would be required? Is the mission the same - no change over the past 30+ years? Do the Cessnas need to be replaced at all?

  16. #41
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    Turbo Porter

    Quote Originally Posted by FMolloy View Post
    Sounds like a Turbo Porter to me.
    I think you're right... Any idea how much they cost?


  17. #42
    Soft-spoken Engineer Slacker's Avatar
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    I wonder if it would have any parts commonality with the PC-9s?
    I appreciate that you're my employer, and an old man besides....

    But if you don't take your goddamn hands off me, I will cut you in half.

  18. #43
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    the same but different...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    I wonder if it would have any parts commonality with the PC-9s?
    Both have PT-6A engines, different versions though...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    I wonder if it would have any parts commonality with the PC-9s?
    Besides using the PT-6 engine, there wouldn't be much commonality I imagine. Variants of the PT-6 are already in use with the AW-139 & PC-9 & Casa fleets, as well as the solitary King Air. When the full compliment of AW-139's reach service that's 26 PT-6 engines. Posted a topic about this on irish air pics:

    http://www.irishairpics.com/cgi-bin/...=ST;f=1;t=1342

    What aircraft is purchased to replace the Cessna's is going to be an interesting one. BN Defenders could double as multi engine trainers, but the PC-6 is a classic in terms of simplicity and STOL performance. It's still in low rate production. There was a topic about it on the pics site a while back as well..
    Last edited by pym; 29th March 2007 at 00:53.

  20. #45
    Some dodgy geezer Scorpy's Avatar
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    I believe the PC6 production line is currently closed, but may be reopened for an order of 6 ac or more. The roles partially have changed as far as I can see. Ad hoc landing for resupply missions in support of deployed helis and troops on training, vertical photography, high rate static line para trg, C2I, ISTAR, higher capacity service and maint support, cash escort, drogue towing and AA sim attack, all the national park and wildlife surveys you want, mil VIP transport, limited air ambulance, night low level flying, the PC6 would be a great asset and would give the young uns something to aim for with a real operational bent to gain experience on rapidy, providing a higher grade of pilot for upgrade to heli and PC9 roles. Hell, I wouldn't have minded sticking with a squadron equipped with those if they were used properly and equipped appropriately.

  21. #46
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carrington View Post
    Did the article explain why aircraft with those features would be required? Is the mission the same - no change over the past 30+ years? Do the Cessnas need to be replaced at all?
    You don't exactly need a PhD to work it out. They are old, have a high number of hours on them and there a more modern aircraft would be safer.

    - Turbo-prop engines are faster and cheaper to maintain
    - Bigger cabin - more troops / cargo
    - Modern Avonics - the aircraft is more capable (eg flying at night)
    - Able to carry special equipment - again more capable aircraft (wider number of roles)
    - Better value for money
    - Able to operate from remote locations with short runways

  22. #47
    squigs
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    Perhaps interesting topic??

    Over the last few weeks and months I have been reading and watching reports of the interception of Russian aircraft by British/US aircraft. These aircraft are reportedly spying on training missions etc.

    Is the privacy of Irish training missions important to conceal?? Who knows if/are we been watched by other military forces as we train?? Do other forces care?.......do we need interceptor jets???

  23. #48
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Did anyone else read Ken Foxe in the Irish Mail on sunday? It seems Aero Vodochody offered us a few Jets....


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  24. #49
    Aha: Death=Preconception Lordinajamjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Did anyone else read Ken Foxe in the Irish Mail on sunday? It seems Aero Vodochody offered us a few Jets....
    It won't happen. Staunton will never agree to throw the Czech game for a few stinking jet trainers.

  25. #50
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    Is this the same offer of L39s, at 1m$ each, that was rumoured around the time of the last Air Spectacular in Casement?

    IAS

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