Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Irish Steel Mill

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by F_M View Post
    If we take €2 million as a figure to refit the graving dock in the Basin with a new caisson, pumps, valves, sluices and should the sill or tunnels need any repairs.

    A roof could be built over it for probably ~€500,000.

    This would mean that you would be paying a €2.5 million investment into a purpose built naval graving dock that is secure, has no usage restrictions, and will, after 5 years, cost far less.
    If the dockmaster work was contracted out, I would guess that €500,000 could be saved on the €650,000 the NS pays to the Verolme dock yard.

    In my opinion, the NS can only benefit from having a graving dock on Haulbowline and the investment will be recouped after a few short years so cost isn't really an argument against it. Also, something like €26 million has been returned from the Defence budget over the last 2 years, so it's not like the money doesn't exist.

    Also, the Verolme dock yard is on it's last legs and has been for years. The workers there will all be retiring in the coming years with few if any to replace them. Less and less work is going to the dock yard and soon the yard wont be able to afford to continue at all. This will mean that there will be no graving dock for the NS to use bar the one in Dublin which would be of no use should ship break down in Cork.
    It has already been costed. Repair the Caisson, cover the drydock with all the necessary equipment, €15m. I have not seen Non NS work in the drydock for quite some time, and any that did ended up there because that's where they were towed. The odd bottom survey too of course.
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

    Comment


    • I can't see how they came up with €15m, I could understand €5m. Anyway, the civi dock workers wouldn't cost that amount as they could be contracted in as needed and the NS could have someone qualified as a dockmaster and have the dock work as additional duties of some of the shore based NS personnel.
      There is no reason as to why the graving dock should not be repaired and no reason as to why the NS could have qualified personnel to dock the ships or contract that work out.

      In any event, the Rushbrooke graving dock WILL close in the coming years and then the NS will be up shit creek without a paddle.

      I know it's something hard for people in this country to do, but a bit of forward thinking can go a long way.

      Comment


      • The NS is way under establishment for Lt, S/Lt, CPO, PO and LS's. In some cases 25% under establishment!

        NS personnel (plus civvies) already do all maintenance apart from drydock (supported by specialist contractors as required). If you use existing NS personnel your only choice is likely to be the crew (who do other maintenance during the drydocking) and that would mean being in drydock longer.

        If Cork Dockyard isn't getting any civvy work then a PPP at Haulbowline isn't likely to either so that would jack up the price/make it more difficult to find a partner (UK dockyards may not be willing due to competition (and their Government placing orders for ships that they don't necessarily need). So the NS doesn't recruit/promote to its existing establishment, and this would require an increase

        I read somewhere that the pumps date from 1912 and don't know how long the drydock is out of commission but would imagine it is over 20 years min. Then you have new equipment/machinery to buy in. Plus it is likely to be specialist work.

        Don't get me wrong I'm for it but there will be a high cost and it will be ongoing. The facility will fully utilised and it may not be good VFM.

        Comment


        • If Cork Dockyard closed and there was no other option they could always go to Dublin Graving Docks (accommodation in McKee)?!

          Again there are downsides. For example, higher fuel cost and lack of ready access to other NS maintenance personnel. And if Dublin Port Company gets it way it will close.

          Off island is an option but you'll have higher accommodation costs and fuel costs (and loss of patrol days) to get there & back. As well as lack of access to other NS personnel.
          Last edited by DeV; 14 May 2015, 09:20.

          Comment


          • you could end up with a need to hire in a floating dock, if they are not prepared to fix the graving dock. Nothing beats having your own facility.

            Comment


            • If Cork Dockyard closed and there was no other option they could always go to Dublin Graving Docks (accommodation in McKee)?!
              Last time I was in drydock in Dublin, the crew lived in aboard ship. No reason the ship can't accommodate its crew while in dry dock.

              The Navy clearly need the dry dock facility,

              (a) repair and refurbish the one in Haulbowline
              (b) continue to use the Cork Harbour facility and buy it outright for use by the NS should it close.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

              Comment


              • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                Last time I was in drydock in Dublin, the crew lived in aboard ship. No reason the ship can't accommodate its crew while in dry dock.

                The Navy clearly need the dry dock facility,

                (a) repair and refurbish the one in Haulbowline
                (b) continue to use the Cork Harbour facility and buy it outright for use by the NS should it close.


                True, unless they are working on the accommodation (but that would normally occur during annual refit), I don't think you have heads or ablutions in a drydock (you have to use dock facilities), would also possibly depend on galley and messes being available. But in Dublin, McKee is nearby if necessary.

                Absolutely access to a drydock is definitely required:
                IMHO option (b) wouldn't make sense and it would more cost effective to go option (a) if Cork Drydock and Dublin Graving Dock are not available.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                  you could end up with a need to hire in a floating dock, if they are not prepared to fix the graving dock. Nothing beats having your own facility.
                  You could but would you then need to put it in the Basin? Would it fit and if it did would it take up too much space?

                  There is what looks like one in the pics of Cork Dockyard is it used and how serviceable is it?

                  There are a few of the right size (up to an EPV and bigger) on the market for €1-3 million

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    You could but would you then need to put it in the Basin? Would it fit and if it did would it take up too much space?

                    There is what looks like one in the pics of Cork Dockyard is it used and how serviceable is it?

                    There are a few of the right size (up to an EPV and bigger) on the market for €1-3 million
                    A floating dock is really not tenable as it would have to be moored in deep water so as not to ground at low water with a ship, say 2400 tonnes on it? It would need a competent daily crew of all grades to look after pumping, mooring, and electrical power generation. The Drydock repair and re-installation would be cost effective as most expenditure would be a one off cost. The basin can , and used to be pumped out to drydock cruisers. I think all the pumps and housings were binned in usual short term eureka moments. The pump channels may still be there on the west side for the drydock and on the east side for the Basin entrance. Once done you have a drydock that will outlast the human memory. In due time one could consider outside work, but always a naval priority facility. Rumour has it that there might be a caisson gate in the Chatham area. Drydocks tend to be early Victorian so, spare bits may abound.

                    Comment


                    • How many drydocks are in Ireland? So there's one in Cork, the disused one in the Basin, a small ones in New Ross & Arklow and presumably one or 2 in Dublin?
                      Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

                      Comment


                      • Click image for larger version

Name:	Island.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	216.2 KB
ID:	697972

                        Maybe if the DOD charge berthage fees for all the yachts in the dock, it could fund the repair of it.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                          How many drydocks are in Ireland? So there's one in Cork, the disused one in the Basin, a small ones in New Ross & Arklow and presumably one or 2 in Dublin?
                          The naval basin used to be a larger dry dock as well capable of dry docking numerous ships at the one time. Would settle for the smaller one though at this stage.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ibenji View Post
                            The naval basin used to be a larger dry dock as well capable of dry docking numerous ships at the one time. Would settle for the smaller one though at this stage.
                            That wouldn't make any sense!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                              How many drydocks are in Ireland? So there's one in Cork, the disused one in the Basin, a small ones in New Ross & Arklow and presumably one or 2 in Dublin?
                              That could take an OPV?
                              AFAIK 1 in Cork and 1 in Dublin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                That could take an OPV?
                                AFAIK 1 in Cork and 1 in Dublin
                                I'm waiting for someone to respond who actually knows the answer Dev.
                                Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X