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  1. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Not sure we struck oil,however in many foundries there is exposure to airborne polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons(PAH) as a result of thermal decomposition of carbonaceous ingredients commonly added to foundry sand. There was airborne exposure to chromium and nickel compounds. The experts say that new organic binder materials used in the steel industry since the 1950's exposed workers to phenol, formaldehyde, isocyanates and various amines. If they swam there might be rabbit shit on Spike.
    What everyone is missing is the fact that the govt allocated €60m (if I'm not mistaken) for the slag heap remediation, only spending €13-14m. In other words, the level of remediation required was not to the scale expected...... it was not as polluted as people thought. The handover of the rest of the island to DOD has to be taken as a positive, considering the govt still plan to spend that money on the site. It will mean that Defence get full ownership of the site & allows for future requirements of the DF (not only the NS).
    The negative narrative here can be overwhelming at times.

    Anyone who has seen the former slag heap can only be impressed by it compared to what was there for the past 50 years. It is greening the harbour and will pull people into the centre of the harbour who may never had any inkling of the scale, size and attributes of Cork Harbour.

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  3. #777
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Not sure we struck oil,however in many foundries there is exposure to airborne polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons(PAH) as a result of thermal decomposition of carbonaceous ingredients commonly added to foundry sand. There was airborne exposure to chromium and nickel compounds. The experts say that new organic binder materials used in the steel industry since the 1950's exposed workers to phenol, formaldehyde, isocyanates and various amines. If they swam there might be rabbit shit on Spike.
    Much of the more hazardous airborne particles departed when this happened.

    That dust cloud expanded as it moved southeast. I was there, I got some on my shoes, it never came off. Left a nice silver sheen on my brown leather shoes. I often wonder what other damage was done.
    What is apparent however was that the demolition process did little to prevent the escape of such dust into the atmosphere. Clearly the priority was to salvage as much scrap steel as possible. I have been involved in the removal of asbestos roofing from other industrial facilities and this is the exact opposite of how you do it.
    What is in the east tip can do no more harm. It cannot seep into the water table, it cannot become airborne. With every shower, what remains of the old steel mill finds its way into the river, or the atmosphere. Small quantities surely, but still not curtailed in any manner.


    Watch this one with the sound down.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  5. #778
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    [QUOTE=na grohmitÃ*;466246]Much of the more hazardous airborne particles departed when this happened.

    That dust cloud expanded as it moved southeast. I was there, I got some on my shoes, it never came off. Left a nice silver sheen on my brown leather shoes. I often wonder what other damage was done.
    What is apparent however was that the demolition process did little to prevent the escape of such dust into the atmosphere. Clearly the priority was to salvage as much scrap steel as possible. I have been involved in the removal of asbestos roofing from other industrial facilities and this is the exact opposite of how you do it.
    What is in the east tip can do no more harm. It cannot seep into the water table, it cannot become airborne. With every shower, what remains of the old steel mill finds its way into the river, or the atmosphere. Small quantities surely, but still not curtailed in any manner.


  6. #779
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    [QUOTE=ancientmariner;466253]
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitÃ* View Post
    Much of the more hazardous airborne particles departed when this happened.

    That dust cloud expanded as it moved southeast. I was there, I got some on my shoes, it never came off. Left a nice silver sheen on my brown leather shoes. I often wonder what other damage was done.
    What is apparent however was that the demolition process did little to prevent the escape of such dust into the atmosphere. Clearly the priority was to salvage as much scrap steel as possible. I have been involved in the removal of asbestos roofing from other industrial facilities and this is the exact opposite of how you do it.
    What is in the east tip can do no more harm. It cannot seep into the water table, it cannot become airborne. With every shower, what remains of the old steel mill finds its way into the river, or the atmosphere. Small quantities surely, but still not curtailed in any manner.




    There are laid down Rules and specifications for the Demolition of Steel Works to include soft strip with hand tools, then piecemeal demolition with remotely operated equipment, minimising dust with water spray, expert survey and sampling for contaminants, special drainage to ground for water used, isolating and closing off services supplies. You cannot take anybody serious that authorised that form of skittle demolition generating bursting dust clouds.
    Sorry I seemed to have goosed my entry a bit and cannot fix it. However the demolition was a disaster. The last paragraph above was mine.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 17th February 2019 at 21:00.

  7. #780
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    Understood.
    Clearly whoever was tasked with the demolition must have come in with the cheapest bid. From the second clip I posted earlier, clearly H&S was not a priority either.
    They may have been tasked with clearing the site in the fastest time possible. Those responsible may have been more concerned with headlines. I know the Green party who were in government at the time feigned interest, but when given the opportunity to see real data recorded by NS people, who had been accurately monitoring the atmosphere during steel production, and after, they didn't return any calls.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  8. #781
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    Whatever happens the plant site, it is unlikely the NS will be able to build anything on it. Even putting services underground will be an issue.

  9. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Whatever happens the plant site, it is unlikely the NS will be able to build anything on it. Even putting services underground will be an issue.
    You are incorrect with that. If it is remediated into a green field site, Defence will be able to do whatever they wish with the site. Hence the need to remediate fully. Note, I have said Defence will be able to do whatever with it, as there is huge potential with the size of the site. Also, there are probably 3 specific points in the whole site that would have had heavy metals present. This is from the info presented by the external consultants a number of years ago in Cobh and Ringaskiddy.

  10. #783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwatch View Post
    You are incorrect with that. If it is remediated into a green field site, Defence will be able to do whatever they wish with the site. Hence the need to remediate fully. Note, I have said Defence will be able to do whatever with it, as there is huge potential with the size of the site. Also, there are probably 3 specific points in the whole site that would have had heavy metals present. This is from the info presented by the external consultants a number of years ago in Cobh and Ringaskiddy.
    I’m talking about the plant site not the east tip.

    The tender for the development of the basin area specifically says it

  11. #784
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    I'm shocked that there would be oil found on a site that has been used for heavy industry for the last 100 years or so. Next thing you'll be telling me that there were traces of Caprinae fecal matter found all over the Ranges at Kilworth and the Glen of Imaal..[/QUOTE]

    There was a time where I would probably just call you a tit but I am starting to feel sorry for you. There is a big difference between remediating a site and changing an oil filter. I deal with remediation of contaminated sites on a daily basis and know exactly how this is going to go. They went with the easy and cheap option for the landfill. There will be no avoiding the issue this time with the steel site

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  13. #785
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    I have to disagree there. The East tip was the best option, as it removed any chance of the toxic dust becoming airborne again. What is on the east tip posed no harm until it became airborne. Leaching into the waterway was also prevented. The method used is the same that has been reclaiming landfill successfully elsewhere, and the chemicals pose less risk than those found on landfill.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  14. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Whatever happens the plant site, it is unlikely the NS will be able to build anything on it. Even putting services underground will be an issue.
    If there's will and money anything can be done.

    The Greenwich Peninsula in London was heavily contaminated from a gas works and other industries and was reclaimed in the 90s when the Millennium Dome was built and the area was redeveloped.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

  15. #787
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    72740285-DE94-4BC3-A817-4377EF94AC96.png
    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    If there's will and money anything can be done.

    The Greenwich Peninsula in London was heavily contaminated from a gas works and other industries and was reclaimed in the 90s when the Millennium Dome was built and the area was redeveloped.

  16. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    They did the same at the dome. They cleaned up as much as the land they could, Capped the rest and built up from the capping. All that means is they can't go deep with the piling for building foundations.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

  17. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibenji View Post
    I'm shocked that there would be oil found on a site that has been used for heavy industry for the last 100 years or so. Next thing you'll be telling me that there were traces of Caprinae fecal matter found all over the Ranges at Kilworth and the Glen of Imaal..
    There was a time where I would probably just call you a tit but I am starting to feel sorry for you. There is a big difference between remediating a site and changing an oil filter. I deal with remediation of contaminated sites on a daily basis and know exactly how this is going to go. They went with the easy and cheap option for the landfill. There will be no avoiding the issue this time with the steel site[/QUOTE]

    keep it civil please! MOD
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  18. #790
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    East tip beginning to look almost natural again.

    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  19. #791
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    There are a significant number of masts visible at the south end of the basin and Google Earth shows a line up of 23 yachts alongside. Are these seized vessels, public berths or what ?
    “The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards.”
    ― Thucydides

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  21. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqra View Post
    There are a significant number of masts visible at the south end of the basin and Google Earth shows a line up of 23 yachts alongside. Are these seized vessels, public berths or what ?
    Nope. They are yachts owned by people connected to the naval service and as far as I know they are moored for free.

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  23. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibenji View Post
    Nope. They are yachts owned by people connected to the naval service and as far as I know they are moored for free.
    Future development of drydock area will surely require a clearance. I notice in the Magnifly footage that a car park exists for casual visitors-must be a record for any Defence establishment in the World. I also notice several patches of standing water on the new green areas.

  24. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Future development of drydock area will surely require a clearance. I notice in the Magnifly footage that a car park exists for casual visitors-must be a record for any Defence establishment in the World. I also notice several patches of standing water on the new green areas.
    You should see my back garden...
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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