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  • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I don't object to a helideck, however I don't anticipate its use beyond sea state 6.
    underneath the heli deck looks sheltered but hard to imagine the idea of them having the set up for a helo after our eithne and all the hassle we had..

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    • Originally posted by Fireplace View Post
      The Dutch have just announced plans for their OPVs. 467m Euro for four ships.

      Displacement: approx. 3,750 tons full load
      Length: 107,9 meters
      Beam: 16,2 meters
      Draught: 3,2 meters

      The ships have a fancy new sensor suite and seem to be just what we're looking for.
      Is that the Merwede design?





      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • That Merwede OPV/corvette is 1,500 - 2000 tonnes, but the Dutch OPV is said to be 3,750 tonnes. Wikipedia says it's officially classified as a frigate.

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        • Morocoo orders three SIGMA corvettes, similar to but larger than the Indonesian ships. This is from Aviaition Week:


          "The Royal Moroccan Navy has signed the contract with the Damen Shipyards Group-owned naval shipbuilder on Feb. 6 in Casablanca. The customer has requested the overall contract value is not disclosed, but this is estimated to be around $1.2 billion. Morocco's order is for three Sigma-class multi-mission frigates: two 2,100-ton ships and one with a displacement of 2,300 ton that features additional command facilities (seen closest in the pic above). The contract is for the design, build and delivery by 2012 of three Sigma-class surface combatants that the Moroccans designate Multi-Mission Frigates.

          The program means significant new business for MBDA, as all three ships are to be equipped with the French company's Vertical Launch MICA local area air defense missile system. The Sigma-ships will also be armed with MBDA-supplied MM40 Exocet surface-to-surface missiles and an Oto Melara 76-mm. main gun.

          According to a Feb. 8 statement from Schelde Naval Shipbuilding, the contract "became effective after close cooperation and final negotiations with the Royal Moroccan Navy in a relatively short period, in order to realize its plans to modernize the fleet and extend its patrol capabilities.... The choice of systems was focused on achieving interoperability, for example in the area of communications systems, to allow Morocco pursue its future intentions on joint operations and missions with ships from NATO navies," Schelde says.

          The Sigma-class Multi-Mission Frigates will be extended versions of the existing Sigma-type ships (four of which are being built for Indonesia) by adding one or two modules. The contract includes one 2,300-ton ship (designated Sigma 10513) of 105 m (344 ft.) in length and two 2,100-ton ships (Sigma 9813s) of 98 m (321 ft.) in length. The stretched variant will have additional facilities for command & control. It will have accommodation for 110 personnel. The other two ships will have a crew of 91.

          The three combatants will feature a common, systematic arrangement including a state of the art Thales Nederland-supplied combat system with anti-air, anti-submarine, anti-surface and electronic warfare capabilities. The ships will have a twin Pielstick diesel propulsion plant, a flight deck and hangar for a medium-sized helicopter, and Eurotorp-supplied launchers for lightweight MU90 Impact torpedoes."

          Morocco's earlier order for a French FREMM frigate seems to be in doubt.

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          • Janes says the three Moroccan corvette/frigates will cost less than $900 million, or €600 million, not the $1.2 billion that Aviation Week estimated.

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            • From another naval site, posted about 10 days ago.

              "Rumor has it, that Merwede is a strong contender in Ireland, both with the MRV and the OPV Falcon."

              Anyone know what the state of play is? Is there a deadline for announcing a decision?

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              • It is impossible to say at this stage. Anyone who thinks otherwise is talking thru their transom.
                The NS is not looking for an MRV like the one Built for the Kiwis. Its looking for a patrol vessel that can do the other tasks. Merwedes MRV is an Army support ship that can do patrols.
                I'm guessing also that the difficulties experienced by the Kiwis with Canterbury hilighted the unsuitibility of a design like that for our purposes.
                But Nothing has gone to tender yet, those who knew what yards offered proposals are very few, and are not likely to be discussing it with people who might mention it on internet message boards, as this could lead to the whole tender process grining to a halt as another dockyard accuses the DoD of a breach of confidentiality.

                If "Rumour had it" I would also have had it. I'm not being arrogant, I just am in a position to hear these "rumours". I only heard of the Merwede OPV when I googled them last week. Someone is Pushing an agenda on that site I'm guessing. The real rumours won't start circulating until the tendering stage begins, possibly in may.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • Thanks for that, I was wondering when I came across that other post on Navweaps.

                  That Merwede OPV/corvette deisgn does look like it could fit the bill though. Did you see on their site where it says "The Falcon Class is based on a proven design still in service after decades, and has recently been updated according to lessons learnt by experienced users." Any idea what/where is the "proven design still in service after decades"?

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                  • Its appears to be based on the Aker designed "Guardian" on which the Roisin Class, Vigilant Class and the KIWI OPVs are based on.

                    Last edited by Goldie fish; 10 February 2008, 00:09.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                    Comment


                    • That could be why it's rumoured to have the inside track? I think that 'rumour' on the other site might be from a Dutch source, so maybe some info. is leaking out at the shipyard end rather than from the NS?

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                      • True. Everyone thinks their design will win...


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • After being pointed to the "navweaps.com" website, some of their contributors had excellent line drawings of other vessels being selected by European Navies for similar roles.

                          3750Tonnes
                          107x16x4.25m(Length x Beam x Draft)
                          Max Speed 22kn
                          Range at 15kn 8000NM
                          Crew 50+extra accom for 40

                          Too big for OPV, Too small for EPV. Nice idea from Royal Schelde though.



                          2500T
                          93.9 x 14.2 x 4.2(Length x Beam x Draft)
                          Max Speed 20.5kn
                          Range at 15kn 3500nm
                          Crew of 35+extra accom for 35
                          To big for OPV, too small for EPV, too slow for either option

                          Interesting to see the Other Navies of europe are having similar ideas though.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                          Comment


                          • True that the Dutch OPV does not fit our specifications, however, if troop transport turns out to be an option that is not as desirable as it once was then surely those specifications would not fit anything we would purchase.

                            During her lifetime, on how many occasions is it likely that a vessel like the Meko MRV would transport troops and vehicles? On how many occasions would it be the best option for such a deployment? Isn't there the danger that we could purchase an unproven design, the uniqueness of which we would not avail of all that often?

                            A vessel like the Dutch OPV with its NH90 would give us the ability to do some of the things an MRV is touted as having - inserting troops(albeit without vehicles). This could be done at sea thereby reducing the risk to the ship. Not the same but possibly more useful.

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sMgEsHC1Lc
                            You will never have a quiet world until you knock the patriotism out of the human race

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                            • Originally posted by Fireplace View Post
                              True that the Dutch OPV does not fit our specifications, however, if troop transport turns out to be an option that is not as desirable as it once was then surely those specifications would not fit anything we would purchase.

                              During her lifetime, on how many occasions is it likely that a vessel like the Meko MRV would transport troops and vehicles? On how many occasions would it be the best option for such a deployment? Isn't there the danger that we could purchase an unproven design, the uniqueness of which we would not avail of all that often?

                              A vessel like the Dutch OPV with its NH90 would give us the ability to do some of the things an MRV is touted as having - inserting troops(albeit without vehicles). This could be done at sea thereby reducing the risk to the ship. Not the same but possibly more useful.

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sMgEsHC1Lc

                              The size has nothing to do with Troop carrying. The size is there for Extended patrolling. Because we have to build a ship that big, we may as well try to make use of the extra space. That is why troop carrying etc is mentioned in the RFP.

                              We are not getting an MRV. We are getting an EPV. There is a huge difference. 90% of the EPVs time will be spent patrolling. It is designed for patrolling first, everything else second. The MRV by its nature is designed to be able to do everything equally well(or badly). I like the integrated mast though. Seems to be the way things are going.


                              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                                The size has nothing to do with Troop carrying. The size is there for Extended patrolling. Because we have to build a ship that big, we may as well try to make use of the extra space. That is why troop carrying etc is mentioned in the RFP.

                                We are not getting an MRV. We are getting an EPV. There is a huge difference. 90% of the EPVs time will be spent patrolling. It is designed for patrolling first, everything else second. The MRV by its nature is designed to be able to do everything equally well(or badly). I like the integrated mast though. Seems to be the way things are going.
                                But if we need a ship that big mostly for patrolling, why only one? Shouldn't all the new OPVs be that big? If it's just for patrolling, we don't need extended range.

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