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  • Where did the guns for Niamh and Roisin come from? Were they new or second hand?
    There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

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    • The 76 is actually comparable, bang wise to the bofors. Range is similar,(18000m) but the main difference is the completely enclosed automated feed and fire system.
      However engaging hostiles with a cannon at the other end of the irish sea is a tad far fetched. The Radar may be able to spot them, but the horizon is only 40 miles away at most. The Eos can only see as far as the horizon, unless you mount ot at the top of a very very high mast.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • GF I checked that source and can attribute it to Lt Cdr M McGrath,in hindsight its a big ask of a 57mm to engage targets at the range referred to in the source,very unlikely even if the Iowas,in their prime,could do it.

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        • Lt Cdr M McGrath
          Commander now...


          Where did the guns for Niamh and Roisin come from? Were they new or second hand?
          Rh202s . Rhinos Rheinmetalls are second hand bought as a job lot from the Germans, mount and feed and sighting significantly different from those on Eithne, gun design and layout is practically the same.

          Replacing Oerlikon 'Gambos' different ammo type, lower rate of fire, but quite a good weapon,

          gamBo is limited to 800 rpm, a raise from the 600rpm of the older magazine fed weapon but the Rh202..1200 rpm...

          OTO 76mm are all new apart from the Peacocks which were fitted on commission back in 1985,with the RN, first INS vessel to carry the weapon, also the first unmanned PWS adopted by the NS.

          While Eithnes main armament can be fired remotely , it is limited in the amount of ammo available in the auto loaders.....

          GR..your speciality here...48 rounds?

          ,in hindsight its a big ask of a 57mm to engage targets at the range referred to in the source
          Not really , when selected Eithnes weapon was in its class the best weapon available being able to put all its available rounds into a 5 metre radius from 15 miles.

          The FCS had to have a 6 degree throw off built in to it to aviod the high level of attrition scored on drogues, with gunner being able to sever the towing wire with single shots
          I certainly wouldn't have gone up against it and the guys using it,
          Last edited by hptmurphy; 8 October 2011, 00:52.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • Is Eithne's FCS radar based?

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            • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
              They are being built.
              Have they brought foward construction,in the yard press release last July,at posts1273/1274 on this thread steel was to be first cut in May2012?

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              • Originally posted by danno View Post
                Have they brought foward construction,in the yard press release last July,at posts1273/1274 on this thread steel was to be first cut in May2012?


                From reports, Steel cut in May 2012, sea trials late 2013, delivery early 2014 (possibly earlier if completed) Niamh was delivered ahead of schedule.

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                • I thought assembly of modules and components was already underway?

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                  • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                    there must be an element of future-proofing these vessels though - these vessels will still be in service in 2045 - does anyone believe that by 2045 the INS won't want/need the capability to conduct even the most basic heli ops from its vessels?

                    if steel is cheap and air is free, whats the problem with fitting a decent size flight deck that provides a significant capability, but would cost nothing?
                    Decent flight decks are a lot more than a flat space on a deck, as the builders of Eithne dscovered.
                    Much more practical to heep a winching spot at the moment. It has been well discussed here the difficulties of operating helis in the sea conditions we experience. Many of the countries you mention do not encounter the same conditions.


                    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                    • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                      I thought assembly of modules and components was already underway?
                      The preparatory work has commenced, but steel cutting as such has not yet started. However, much of the ancillary work that must be done before you begin building a new design has been completed.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                      • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                        Decent flight decks are a lot more than a flat space on a deck, as the builders of Eithne dscovered.
                        Much more practical to heep a winching spot at the moment. It has been well discussed here the difficulties of operating helis in the sea conditions we experience. Many of the countries you mention do not encounter the same conditions.
                        According to the article, RHIB operation is limited to Sea State 4. Helicopters would have a similar capability.

                        Both common sense and the widespread use of helicopters aboard similar-sized naval and coastguard vessels demonstrate their usefulness and the fact that they have now become virtually standard equipment. It is very puzzling that the Naval Service are not including such a capability aboard the new OPVs. If it is an inter-service issue between the Naval Service and the Air Corps, then it doesn't say much for the management of either, and it's way past the time for the CoS and/or Minister to knock some heads together and do the right thing.

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                        • Show me another similar sized vessel in the British Isles/northern europe/bay of biscay that operates a helicopter.
                          If the UK don't do it, the French don't do it, the Icelandics don't do it, the UK don't do it, what do you suippose that tells you?
                          Could it be that the sea conditions do not permit worthwhile use of a helicopter? You can launch a RIB in state 4 and if conditions change quickly, still recover it in a 5 or 6, with an acceptable risk of damage. The same cannot be said for a helicopter.

                          To remind you of what operating a helicopter from a sinilar size vessel, look at the following clip.. again.



                          Landing on a much larger vessel.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                          • Here's one , the Spanish BAM class,



                            and here's another, the French Gowind OPV,

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                            • Originally posted by easyrider View Post
                              Both common sense and the widespread use of helicopters aboard similar-sized naval and coastguard vessels demonstrate their usefulness and the fact that they have now become virtually standard equipment. It is very puzzling that the Naval Service are not including such a capability aboard the new OPVs. If it is an inter-service issue between the Naval Service and the Air Corps, then it doesn't say much for the management of either, and it's way past the time for the CoS and/or Minister to knock some heads together and do the right thing.
                              Does any other nation use helicopters deployed from ships to patrol their territorial waters, EEZ or for fisheries protection?

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                              • I don't see a helicopter on either ship(one of which is not yet built-the other which has not yet been commissioned). I also see neither beartrap rail nor harpoon honeycomb on deck so I am wondering how they intend to secure the heli on a pitching deck.
                                Could it be possible perhaps that these ships are designed to operate Helis in the sheltered MED? Be mindful also that the BAM has greater displacement than the P60s, at 2500T.


                                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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