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Thread: OPV Replacement

  1. #2651
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitÃ* View Post
    Make no mistake, P31 as delivered was a huge leap in capability from what we had, in terms of machinery, weaponry and sensor fit. Indeed I assume her planning and design would have commenced not long after P20 entered service, so the achievement in that regard is greater still. What those responsible for its design construction and delivery achieved, brought the NS light years ahead of where they were in the mid 70s, with just one Ocean going patrol vessel, and small three coastal patrol minesweepers. Indeed it brought us a long way from any other modern navy in the OPV game, who for the most part were still using a design based on deep sea trawlers. At the time of her launch, only the USCG "Bear" class cutters were comparable, entering service only a few years before P31 was commissioned.

    P31 brought us to an area of naval operations we had never been before, a mere ten years or so after we first started designing and building ships suited for our needs, and not just pressing older unsuited naval vessels into the role. Indeed throughout her service P31 has changed internally to fit a changing role. Compartments have been re-designated, based on use. I believe the Air Corps Pilot cabins have since been re-purposed as a Cadets mess. I'm sure the rec spaces under the helideck came in very useful when the ship was loaded with rescued mediterranean refugees. Ideally located with easy access to the helideck, without having to bring non crew through crew accom spaces.
    The crux of what I read from murphs criticism though is not so much of P31 herself, but of the opportunities lost through the failure to follow up and modify the design based on experience in operation. This was what happened with the P20 class, each ship being an improvement on what came before, and more recently with the P50 class. P52 had significant internal layout changes compared to P51, based on experience with P51. I have not had the opportunity to experience the P60s yet, but assume the same has been the case, each ship improving over its predecessor. As it was the P60 managed to solve the main weakness of the P50 class, her thirsty engines that do not like loitering.
    Could you see that had we managed to build a P32 the "niggles" would have been improved upon? If we, or anyone managed to build a third vessel in this class the possibilities were unlimited.
    I know already, that all the lessons learnd by Naval crews in all ships to date will be considered when going forward to build the MRV/EPV.

    The fact that P31 serves today, with no reduction in operational capability (apart from the absence of a Helicopter, not the fault of the NS) serves as a monument to all those responsible for her design and construction. While her replacement may be in the planning stages, the ship herself shows no sign of withdrawing from operations, even if most of her crew were not even born when Murph, Laners and co were spending their down time in the rec space under the helideck.
    Bearing in mind the criticisms are with the benefit of hind sight and the fact that so much alteration was carried out after her build lends testament to the inbuilt probably unintended flexibility. The P31 in its built format has almost morphed out of recognition today because of the innovative work based on experience, a second build of the class after a few years of operations would have lead to the ultimate vessel if minds were open to some of the suggestions put forward.


    There was a' Cadets Mess' as originaly built abaft of the Canteen opposite the ratings mess.

    AFIK those accommodation units were aft of a watertight bulkhead.
    Indeed they were.

    even if most of her crew were not even born when Murph, Laners and co were spending their down time in the rec space under the helideck.
    At sea as in under way these areas weren't popular with most people opting fot the more sociable ..and stable mess. The recreation spaces by virtue of their location were subject to more movement with very little ventilation thus often inducing Mal De Mare on some poor souls... the Forward rope stores would do the same thing.

    Rather than continuing being all at sea I will refrain from comment, and regret some of YOUR comments.
    noted.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 23rd January 2019 at 21:56.
    Time for another break I think......

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  3. #2652
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    There was one small design change made to the Senior Rates recc space before handover from the builders. Due to the small size of the space and when the bar was built it would have been difficult to fit in the beer kegs and coolers. The solution was to locate the kegs and coolers to a fan room on the aft side of the rec space and the beer lines passing trough the bulkhead, the rec space was a watertight compartment so the dockyard fitted cutoff valves in the bulkhead to address the problem . A fine example of cooperation between military and civilians in design adjustment ( it was the Chief ERA's idea ) well done Eddie .
    Last edited by Laners; 23rd January 2019 at 21:51.
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  4. #2653
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitÃ* View Post
    Make no mistake, P31 as delivered was a huge leap in capability from what we had, in terms of machinery, weaponry and sensor fit. Indeed I assume her planning and design would have commenced not long after P20 entered service, so the achievement in that regard is greater still. What those responsible for its design construction and delivery achieved, brought the NS light years ahead of where they were in the mid 70s, with just one Ocean going patrol vessel, and small three coastal patrol minesweepers. Indeed it brought us a long way from any other modern navy in the OPV game, who for the most part were still using a design based on deep sea trawlers. At the time of her launch, only the USCG "Bear" class cutters were comparable, entering service only a few years before P31 was commissioned.

    P31 brought us to an area of naval operations we had never been before, a mere ten years or so after we first started designing and building ships suited for our needs, and not just pressing older unsuited naval vessels into the role. Indeed throughout her service P31 has changed internally to fit a changing role. Compartments have been re-designated, based on use. I believe the Air Corps Pilot cabins have since been re-purposed as a Cadets mess. I'm sure the rec spaces under the helideck came in very useful when the ship was loaded with rescued mediterranean refugees. Ideally located with easy access to the helideck, without having to bring non crew through crew accom spaces.
    The crux of what I read from murphs criticism though is not so much of P31 herself, but of the opportunities lost through the failure to follow up and modify the design based on experience in operation. This was what happened with the P20 class, each ship being an improvement on what came before, and more recently with the P50 class. P52 had significant internal layout changes compared to P51, based on experience with P51. I have not had the opportunity to experience the P60s yet, but assume the same has been the case, each ship improving over its predecessor. As it was the P60 managed to solve the main weakness of the P50 class, her thirsty engines that do not like loitering.
    Could you see that had we managed to build a P32 the "niggles" would have been improved upon? If we, or anyone managed to build a third vessel in this class the possibilities were unlimited.
    I know already, that all the lessons learnd by Naval crews in all ships to date will be considered when going forward to build the MRV/EPV.

    The fact that P31 serves today, with no reduction in operational capability (apart from the absence of a Helicopter, not the fault of the NS) serves as a monument to all those responsible for her design and construction. While her replacement may be in the planning stages, the ship herself shows no sign of withdrawing from operations, even if most of her crew were not even born when Murph, Laners and co were spending their down time in the rec space under the helideck.
    RTE report on ‘Operation Madonna’. Joint Naval Service air corps exercise in 1987. Lots of Dauphin landing and take off footage from P31.

  5. #2654
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitÃ* View Post
    Make no mistake, P31 as delivered was a huge leap in capability from what we had, in terms of machinery, weaponry and sensor fit. Indeed I assume her planning and design would have commenced not long after P20 entered service, so the achievement in that regard is greater still. What those responsible for its design construction and delivery achieved, brought the NS light years ahead of where they were in the mid 70s, with just one Ocean going patrol vessel, and small three coastal patrol minesweepers. Indeed it brought us a long way from any other modern navy in the OPV game, who for the most part were still using a design based on deep sea trawlers. At the time of her launch, only the USCG "Bear" class cutters were comparable, entering service only a few years before P31 was commissioned.

    P31 brought us to an area of naval operations we had never been before, a mere ten years or so after we first started designing and building ships suited for our needs, and not just pressing older unsuited naval vessels into the role. Indeed throughout her service P31 has changed internally to fit a changing role. Compartments have been re-designated, based on use. I believe the Air Corps Pilot cabins have since been re-purposed as a Cadets mess. I'm sure the rec spaces under the helideck came in very useful when the ship was loaded with rescued mediterranean refugees. Ideally located with easy access to the helideck, without having to bring non crew through crew accom spaces.
    The crux of what I read from murphs criticism though is not so much of P31 herself, but of the opportunities lost through the failure to follow up and modify the design based on experience in operation. This was what happened with the P20 class, each ship being an improvement on what came before, and more recently with the P50 class. P52 had significant internal layout changes compared to P51, based on experience with P51. I have not had the opportunity to experience the P60s yet, but assume the same has been the case, each ship improving over its predecessor. As it was the P60 managed to solve the main weakness of the P50 class, her thirsty engines that do not like loitering.
    Could you see that had we managed to build a P32 the "niggles" would have been improved upon? If we, or anyone managed to build a third vessel in this class the possibilities were unlimited.
    I know already, that all the lessons learnd by Naval crews in all ships to date will be considered when going forward to build the MRV/EPV.

    The fact that P31 serves today, with no reduction in operational capability (apart from the absence of a Helicopter, not the fault of the NS) serves as a monument to all those responsible for her design and construction. While her replacement may be in the planning stages, the ship herself shows no sign of withdrawing from operations, even if most of her crew were not even born when Murph, Laners and co were spending their down time in the rec space under the helideck.
    RTE report on ‘Operation Madonna’. Joint Naval Service air corps exercise in 1987. Lots of Dauphin landing and take off footage from P31.

    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2017/082...ename-madonna/

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  7. #2655
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    I see a very young DF CoS late in the clip there. Peak activity with the helis there, getting them fully operational. Last time I saw a Dauphin on deck was during the Tall Ships race in 1991.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  11. #2658
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    The additional maneuvering aid of a stern thruster makes the ship an ideal subject for an integrated joystick control system and PTI will give suitable loading factors for prolonged slow running below 12 knots. I think all of our newer ships have a slow running capability and maybe could be adapted for integrated maneuvering using one thruster, two propellers, and twin rudders as part of the DP system. The nice thing is the AFM is getting most of it for free from the EU.

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  13. #2659
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    Not something you usually see on such a site:
    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...t-program.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Not something you usually see on such a site:
    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...t-program.html
    VARD are in attendance at IMEX at Singapore. They are pushing the VARD 713 and VARD 510 and are also showing an on stand video of the Irish Naval Service and it's latest OPV's. The video is available on Facebook . If we were to consider Vard 713 then we must consider adjusting the Basin size, including reopening the drydock 182m X 28.65.

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  16. #2661
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    VARD are in attendance at IMEX at Singapore. They are pushing the VARD 713 and VARD 510 and are also showing an on stand video of the Irish Naval Service and it's latest OPV's. The video is available on Facebook . If we were to consider Vard 713 then we must consider adjusting the Basin size, including reopening the drydock 182m X 28.65.
    If I could add, at this weekend SeaFest 2019 in Cork, there were 4 vessels alongside the Old Victoria Quay, P52, P64, Maritime Institute Celtic vessel, and a fishing vessel. It brought home to me that the upper City berths would hardly accommodate the current vessels of the INS to give an alongside quay wall berth for each vessel. The harbour needs some redesign to accommodate visiting warships and Cruise Liners in a secure accessible manner.From vessels waiting for berths, in the roads, to haphazard un-designated berths in Cork it seems ships are caught up in a port in transition, with potentionally not enough Berths.

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  18. #2662
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Not something you usually see on such a site:
    http://www.navyrecognition.com/index...t-program.html
    Pity that photo caption is wrong... thats not Waterford.. and its not pissing rain..so its not the comissioning of the latest vessel
    Time for another break I think......

  19. #2663
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Pity that photo caption is wrong... thats not Waterford.. and its not pissing rain..so its not the comissioning of the latest vessel
    Oh I know, but really given how surprising it is to even have them mentioned it's not surprising that they went with a stock photo.

  20. #2664
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    That was the Samuel Beckett in Dublin. I was at that.

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  22. #2665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    That was the Samuel Beckett in Dublin. I was at that.
    As was I. If they changed "The ceremonial of the commissioning of the new Irish OPV" to "The ceremonial of the commissioning of a new Irish OPV" it could be more accurate.
    There was a visiting Excursion cruise liner "Ocean Endeavour" (137m loa)arriving this morning, swinging at Horgans Quay and i Could see the crew of L.E Niamh paying close attention to the manouver, given their proximity to the swinging basin.
    The proposed redevelopment "should" provide more appropriate berthage for visiting vessels, (3 average size cargo vessels would have berthed there in the past, the longest being 150m however most developers are sea blind, and consider a quayside something to look out your apartment block at, rather than someplace secure for ships to berth safely.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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