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Agusta Westland AB139 for Irish Air Corps

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  • Interesting Boomer! That would make sence in relation to HEMS. By the way, as I understand it, If the corp are going with the option for the extra two heli's, I believe that decision has to be made by December at the latest.

    Comment


    • Why would the 139 be used to provide HEMS when the one of the EC135's is equipped with a medi fit. Would the 139 be a bit of overkill for HEMS (no pun intended)in anything other than a major incident,its capacity would not be needed in day to day operations.
      Well thats just my 2c's worth.

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      • Originally posted by Spook View Post
        Why would the 139 be used to provide HEMS when the one of the EC135's is equipped with a medi fit. Would the 139 be a bit of overkill for HEMS (no pun intended)in anything other than a major incident,its capacity would not be needed in day to day operations.
        Well thats just my 2c's worth.
        The EC135s are not permanently fitted with the Air Ambulance kit which takes 45 minutes to fit.

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        • Spook you might have misread boomers last thread, he said that the Aer corp will not be providing HEMS.

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          • Originally posted by Vmax View Post
            Spook you might have misread boomers last thread, he said that the Aer corp will not be providing HEMS.
            Vmax I said under the current agreement, it wasnt mentioned when the agreement runs out or if it would be renegotiated with the arrival of the 139s....

            Comment


            • Boomer,

              I take you point. But as I understand it HEMS cannot be carried out by the aircorp full stop. They might be able to do something similar under a different name but at the end of the day they operate under military rules, that is where the problem lies. It's a bit like a military ambulance or green godess turning up at a RTA or house fire, 99% of the time it doesn't happen, there can be problems with civilians been transported in military aircraft, insurance been one. The definition of HEMS can be found in the JAA(joint aviation authority) rules and regulations, HEMS taskings /operations are carried out by civil operators under the guidence found within JAR OPS 3, civies also have to have substancial public liability insurance, something the military doesn't provide. As I understand it God forbid, civie operator has an accident, insurance covers it. Military have the same accident you sue the state, correct me if i'm wrong. The HSE might have some issues with it as well but thats way above my pay scale. By the way if its a national emergency everything goes out the window.

              Boomer I don't want this taken up the wrong way, I'm just throwing this one out to the forum. I noticed you said that it takes 45 mins to kit the 135 to air ambulance fit. Now I know everthing has its limitations but in that same time a coast guard heli from any of the four bases which are well positioned around the country and which are on 15 min standby during the day if availible would be at any hospital in their immediate area within 30 minutes. That's well before the 135 even lifts from the Don.

              I'm just wondering are the corp going down the same road as before been neither purely military or civie when it comes to heli ops. I will give you a scenario ambulance control ring up the Don "Hello, have you a 135 or 139 availible for air ambulance today"?, "eh no, not taday, because its down for maintainence, or its in the Curragh with the rangers, or its doing a photo shoot, or its flying a VIP. Are they going to be a jack of all trades and master of none. It's probably one of the reasons why the coast guard now have four bases! Anbody any thoughts?:confused:

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Vmax View Post
                Boomer,

                I take you point. But as I understand it HEMS cannot be carried out by the aircorp full stop. They might be able to do something similar under a different name but at the end of the day they operate under military rules, that is where the problem lies.
                Its not something similar at all, its called inter-facility transfer, my understanding is that it is a rare time that it is urgent so the 45 minutes kit out time isnt an issue. It would only be an issue in a major emergency. And on that matter does anyone know how many kits are available, one or two?

                Originally posted by Vmax View Post
                It's a bit like a military ambulance or green godess turning up at a RTA or house fire, 99% of the time it doesn't happen, there can be problems with civilians been transported in military aircraft, insurance been one.
                It is my understanding that the Army Ambulances at Curragh Camp occasionally help out in the area around the camp, I dont know how often or for what type of assistance.

                Originally posted by Vmax View Post
                The definition of HEMS can be found in the JAA(joint aviation authority) rules and regulations, HEMS taskings /operations are carried out by civil operators under the guidence found within JAR OPS 3, civies also have to have substancial public liability insurance, something the military doesn't provide. As I understand it God forbid, civie operator has an accident, insurance covers it. Military have the same accident you sue the state, correct me if i'm wrong. The HSE might have some issues with it as well but thats way above my pay scale. By the way if its a national emergency everything goes out the window.
                True most HEMS systems that I have heard of are Civillian based.

                Originally posted by Vmax View Post
                Boomer I don't want this taken up the wrong way, I'm just throwing this one out to the forum. I noticed you said that it takes 45 mins to kit the 135 to air ambulance fit. Now I know everthing has its limitations but in that same time a coast guard heli from any of the four bases which are well positioned around the country and which are on 15 min standby during the day if availible would be at any hospital in their immediate area within 30 minutes. That's well before the 135 even lifts from the Don.
                The problem with the Coast Guard Helicopters is their size, there are very few places that they can land, even more so if they go with helipads on top of hospitals which has been mentioned regarding the mater in the HEMS report.

                Originally posted by Vmax View Post
                I'm just wondering are the corp going down the same road as before been neither purely military or civie when it comes to heli ops. I will give you a scenario ambulance control ring up the Don "Hello, have you a 135 or 139 availible for air ambulance today"?, "eh no, not taday, because its down for maintainence, or its in the Curragh with the rangers, or its doing a photo shoot, or its flying a VIP. Are they going to be a jack of all trades and master of none. It's probably one of the reasons why the coast guard now have four bases! Anbody any thoughts?:confused:
                This already happens

                Comment


                • Thanks for the reply Boomer, so air ambulance and hospital transfer it is.

                  Originally posted by boomer
                  The problem with the Coast Guard Helicopters is their size, there are very few places that they can land, even more so if they go with helipads on top of hospitals which has been mentioned regarding the mater in the HEMS report.
                  I agree the coast guard helis are large but thay can land at any hospital pad( that hasn't been condemed due to building muti storey car parks and the like in the vicinity!!!) the 135's land at, they have been doing it for years!!!

                  The proposed elevated helipad at the Mater hospital will have a weight limit that excludes a 61 landing on it. A 139 is as big as it will take, something the coast guard might want to keep in mind when they go on the hunt for new heli's.:wink:
                  Last edited by Boomer; 7 November 2006, 20:13. Reason: Adding quote links to make for easier reading

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Vmax View Post
                    Thanks for the reply Boomer, so air ambulance and hospital transfer it is.

                    I agree the coast guard helis are large but thay can land at any hospital pad( that hasn't been condemed due to building muti storey car parks and the like in the vicinity!!!) the 135's land at, they have been doing it for years!!!

                    The proposed elevated helipad at the Mater hospital will have a weight limit that excludes a 61 landing on it. A 139 is as big as it will take, something the coast guard might want to keep in mind when they go on the hunt for new heli's.:wink:
                    I recall from the briefing over the weekend that the number of heli pads at hospitals is a tad on the low site to be next to non existant in many places (iirc they can be counted on the fingers of one hand.) Once the slides are available online i will have the exact number.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by boomer View Post
                      I recall from the briefing over the weekend that the number of heli pads at hospitals is a tad on the low site to be next to non existant in many places (iirc they can be counted on the fingers of one hand.) Once the slides are available online i will have the exact number.
                      You have raised a very interesting point Boomer. It will indeed be interesting to see how many pads are in fact operational, keep us posted.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Vmax View Post
                        A 139 is as big as it will take, something the coast guard might want to keep in mind when they go on the hunt for new heli's.
                        CHC have the SAR contract in Ireland. They renewed their contract in the UK at the end of 2005 & agreed to introduce the S92 & AW139 as new SAR Helos under the new contract. I would guess that they would offer the same helos when the Irish contract is up for renewal in a couple of years (I think!)
                        http://www.chc.ca/europe_ireland.php

                        http://www.chc.ca/europe_uk_search_and_rescue.php
                        United Kingdom
                        Search and Rescue
                        CHC will deploy the Sikorsky S-92 and the Agusta Bell AW139 in connection with the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) SAR contract announced December 12, 2005. CHC will operate two S-92s at Stornoway and two S-92s at Sumburgh, plus two AB139s based at Lee-on-Solent and an additional AB139 at Portland.
                        The introduction of the S-92 and the AB139 will mean an increase in the Coastguard's operating range and speed, so that the time to arrive ‘on scene’ will be reduced. Combined with an increase in the speed of the winch, the overall result is a reduction in the time taken to get medical aid to those in need.
                        Scotia operates from bases in North Denes (Great Yarmouth) and Humberside. To service facilities in the Irish Sea, CHC operates from a base in Blackpool, England.
                        CHC operates the following helicopter types in the UK:
                        Sikorsky S-92 SAR (commencing 2007)
                        Super Puma AS332L, A332L2 (Mark II)
                        Eurocopter EC 255 (commencing 2007)
                        Sikorsky S76A+, S76C
                        SA365N, N2 (Dauphin II)
                        Agusta Bell AB 139 SAR (commencing 2007)

                        Sikorsky S-92

                        Max cruise speed 151 nmph
                        Maximum passenger seating 19
                        Maximum range 996 km

                        Agusta Bell AW 139

                        Cruise speed 151 nmph
                        Maximum passenger seating 14
                        Maximum range 415 nm

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                        • thanks to Alex SP on flying in Ireland
                          2 AB-139 during refuelling at Marseille Airport the 20th November


                          they are on the way



                          edit, sorry imageshack seems to be playing up at the moment, I'll try it again later, untill then I'll use the IMO host
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by mutter nutter; 22 November 2006, 15:28.
                          Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                          Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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                          • one more
                            Attached Files
                            Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                            Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

                            Comment


                            • they look fairly cool.....[daydream] Odin pictures about 10-12 of those lined up in the Bal and thinks, "wouldnt that be the right job"[/daydream]
                              What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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                              • Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

                                Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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