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  1. #1
    shock junky
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    Cool PDFORRA report "Life at Sea"

    I was just wondering if anbody else heard any news on the "effects of life at sea". I was talking to one of my mates and it seems that it dont look to good for old F .Then again the naval base is over run with rumours and ballhops about it.

    ""The Life at Sea questonaire was sent out to all pdforra members and their spouses to determine the effect of the raised seagoing days in the naval service. The findings were being compiled by a team of experts ""
    Last edited by sparky; 2nd May 2006 at 23:00.
    "Let no mans ghost come back to say my training let him down"

  2. #2
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Should be interesting to hear how 200 days at sea is affecting morale, health and family life for NS personell.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  3. #3
    Muff Diver
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    it's very hard to find a two or three week patrol anymore. They used to start on a monday morning and end on a friday afternoon, now it's out on a sunday and back tuesday fortnight - 18 days continuous or tuesday three weeks - 25 days continuous.
    At best I would have thought this was a change to the terms and conditions of employment and should have been negotiated. The real bastard is coming back to the basin after 25 days at sea to be on the duty watch, probably able to look at your house in Cobh.....
    No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
    No Beast am I, For I know no pity...

  4. #4
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    The real bastard is coming back to the basin after 25 days at sea to be on the duty watch, probably able to look at your house in Cobh
    I know its little comfort to you, but because the increase in sea days means that your sterling work has not gone un noticed

    The flag officer will be sure to get his 10% bonus again this year

    He is probably to busy spending the dosh to say it

    But on his behalf thanks
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  5. #5
    shock junky
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    As it stands now according to the questionaires returned to PDFORRA there is a number of seagoing personnel on the edge . I suppose if we were to say less then 10 people that aint alot but thats 10 people in less than 500 that would equate to nearly one person per ship feeling a slight bit depressed to say the least . And from what i got from the power point that "His Highness" sent around is that if you do 170 days at sea yourself you can come in for the rest of the year ( I dont think that includes reliefs) but if we were to say that you done 169 days and the seagoing year ended . Come january 1st you start counting up your days again from 1 and then lets hope there is a relief there for you . I think a chief put it as that the flag was robbing peter to pay paul but the check is going to bounce and aint nobody going to benefit from it except him
    "Let no mans ghost come back to say my training let him down"

  6. #6
    shock junky
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    And that why my friends i am leaving the navy because i dont think its mandatory for senior management to try and shaft the guys doing the hands on stuff
    "Let no mans ghost come back to say my training let him down"

  7. #7
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Report

    The report will be published within the next 3 weeks.
    The main thing that has come from it that service personnel families understand that they have to go to sea, but its the duties alongside the base during the self maintainance periods is what the problem is.
    As far as i know a copy will be forwarded to management before it is released to the press.

    Management has nothing whatsoever to do with this report, PDFORRA commisioned it.

    About time somebody stood up for Ratings.

  8. #8
    Armchair Admiral ocean's Avatar
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    give me a break - I know that they have been trying to reduce the duties in base for years but nobody wants to lose the duty money!

  9. #9
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Problem is manpower as usual. The army is the same. I thought this one through a long time ago..why not instead taking guys out of the sysytem for 48hrs at a time , organise a shift system as in industry.where guys go on for 12 hours at a time instead of twenty four. Project it and rotate it on a6 week basis and pay a shift allowance to those involved.....

    Its far more balanced and family friendly and would free up guys during periods when they would be normally be in cluded in duty roster. It work for the base ..ships are a different issue. but security duty s aboard ships should be scrapped and a leave watch would come onto place freeing up the other half of the crew for going on leave for at least half of the period alongside. This would also ensure that the ship would have sufficent crew for an emergencey sailing. I'm sure with all the courses in man power managemant , financimg and well fare if the higher usp sat down they could always thrash this out.

    These issues have always been a bone of contention but nobody has ever even tried to form a group to try sort it out.

    TheNS might find it easier to hang to people if they started to look at new ways of making time more productive....and increase the time available to those who see themselves as merely punching the clock.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  10. #10
    Sergeant
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    Without looking for restricted info, how does this work? If posted to a ship, are you at sea while she is at sea, or are there two crews, one at sea and one resting off (Did I hear something about “Port” and “Starboard” crews)?

  11. #11
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    one crew per ship..the cew is divided into three watchs depending on the size of the crew. On Eithne at one stage it went to four watches. The ideal would to be have a reserve crew..but as the crew is post to the ship ...same as being posted to another unit..this is where all the admin and Q maters for the member of the crew is held.

    on smaller ships such as sweepers and peacocks itws envisged to have a rotating crew but people shortages actually resulted in ships being tied up rather than having a surplus to privide sea going replacements.
    nice thought..would be ideal.. but in reality there has always been shortages rather surplus.

    Interesting to note that Eithnes originaly establishment was for 72 plus and air attachmnet...is down to around 50odd over the last few years.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 25th June 2006 at 20:58.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  12. #12
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The Steering Group report recommended 1.5 crews per vessel to allow for rotations. That is apart from people who work in the Naval Base & HQ.

  13. #13
    Private 3*
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    Bad press for the Navy

    Anyone read the article in the Herlad Am this morning, apparently a large percentage of the navy hate going to sea, how ridicoulous is that

  14. #14
    Ex-bagger Big Al's Avatar
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    believing what you read the herald am...how ridiculous is that
    You're even dumber than I tell people

    You might have been infected but you never were a bore

  15. #15
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  16. #16
    C/S
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    http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/b...ead.php?t=9388
    Gerry Rooney, general secretary of PDforra, said this was because the Naval Service was failing to follow through on a promise that personnel would spend a maximum of 180 days at sea over two years, with the following two years at base.
    Is this a typo? Is it mean to read "a maximum of 180 days at sea averaged over two years"?

  17. #17
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    PDFORRA points is that personnel are supposed to be rotated - two years at sea (I think 180 days per year) and two years on shore. The holders of some appointments are currently spending three years at sea and one on shore.

  18. #18
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The fact that the agreement was reached when there was a 7 ship fleet has been a factor. Each of the 8 ships is expected to achieve 200 patrol days per year. I understand the Eithne trip to South America was not included in this 200 days and she is now under extreme pressure to achieve this target.
    What is required is a major review of manning levels within the NS, and following from that a major increase in Naval service strength, to allow proper crew rotations. I think aiming for a 2000 pers target is not too ambitious. At the moment the limitations of the white paper restrict the intake, but just look at this website, every week we have someone registering who wants to join the NS. There is no shortage of recruits, but its keeping them in thats the issue.
    Using the NS as a shortcut for older recruits to get in to the army is also something that should cease. If you join the NS, you should stay in the NS.
    Of course in the past there were those who never went to sea at all. I wonder are they still about?[/


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  19. #19
    CQMS Dogwatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    The fact that the agreement was reached when there was a 7 ship fleet has been a factor. Each of the 8 ships is expected to achieve 200 patrol days per year. I understand the Eithne trip to South America was not included in this 200 days and she is now under extreme pressure to achieve this target.
    Her 65 day trip is included in her 200+ days on patrol, it is not included in the days spent on FP duties. 90% of sea time is on FP duties. The NS can do what it likes with the other 10%. Therefore, the ship is NOT required to complete an extra 65 days on patrol.

  20. #20
    Legate
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    I hope this business fizzles out and dies...If you join the Navy, you accept sea going. If your personal (family) circumstances change or if the Service requires more of you than you can comfortably deliver then you should leave. Public campaigns of this nature are an embarassment. No sympathy here.

  21. #21
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Accepting sea going in the Naval service is to be expected. However when it is excessive it needs to be addressed. While it may have been fine in the days of sweepers and corvettes, people are different these days. While a civilian job will provide less working hours for more wages and more sociable arrangements, why should a member of the NS remain?
    What is to attract a potential recruit in the first place? Hoping a problem "goes away" will not achieve anything.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  22. #22
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    No comment!
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  23. #23
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Well said Goldie. Government policy is ship/shore rotations every 2 years.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marius View Post
    I hope this business fizzles out and dies...If you join the Navy, you accept sea going. If your personal (family) circumstances change or if the Service requires more of you than you can comfortably deliver then you should leave. Public campaigns of this nature are an embarassment. No sympathy here.
    Excessive turnover of staff may work in retail, but it doesn't work in a naval service where you spend years training people.

    Screwing people over on amounts of shore leave simply breeds bitterness and sends the people the naval service trained into other employment.

    Sure in other navies people are away on 6-month tours, but thats once in a three year cycle, interspersed with training cruises.

  25. #25
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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