PDFORRA report "Life at Sea"

[Vice Admiral]

You have one(A Creche) at your place of employment do you not?

No - I don't,

[ocean]

Hate towards top brass goes with the turf, hate towards non-seagoing personnel could somone tell me how much seatime the prinicpals associated with this report have done in the last 2, 4 or 6 years?

[G-2]

Not too sure now but

I don't know but would I be at all stupid to suggest that the Nval service his drastically undermaned. I mean look at it, Morale is not as low as it is for no reason.
The lack of enough personel to do the job is having the effect that when you come back from a patrol instead of getting the 2 weeks or most of it off before the next one (like most modern navies who tend to maintain 2 crews per ship on rotation basis) you spend almost all of it getting your ship ready again.
I mean be realistic, at the very least if not 2 crews on rotation then at least have the ship readied by personel from the base rather than the crew who just arrived. It would certainly make a lot more sense morale wise. That is of course in my humble opinion.

Hate towards top brass goes with the turf, hate towards non-seagoing personnel could somone tell me how much seatime the prinicpals associated with this report have done in the last 2, 4 or 6 years?

Ocean's right a certain amount of animosity is bound to build up in the minds of somebody whos at sea a lot towards someone who isn't its just human nature. As for the top brass. A certain someone seems more concerned with his yearly bonus (20,000) rather than the morale and welfare of the men under his command.

[hptmurphy]

20k..is that all..thought it would have been more

...now theres an idea..apart from PDA why not pay ships crews a bonus,,,,,officers NCOs BODS!( love that word) a bonus for time spent at sea..would have guys queueing up to go to sea.! money may not solve everything..but it can make misery more pleasureable

[ocean]

G-2 Noc - u have missed the point, who are the principals driving this report, what seatime do they have, and your point regarding yearly bonus is off the wall.

[ocean]

hpt - I agree but i understand money was offered and turned down - wow.

[hptmurphy]

So what do they really want?

fine to offer a report but as in all organisations there have to be reasonable soloutions to percieved problems. There has to be some negotiation..you can 't just knock a situatiom point blank and wait for the other side to offer a soloution..whole thing seems like a waste of time if they can't offer viable soloutions.

[G-2]

No

your point regarding yearly bonus is off the wall.

No Ocean I believe you may have missed what I mean here. The point is that a certain someone has no interest in reforming the system for the good of the general personel because hes too busy insuring he recieves his bonus. When a individuals main concern is their extra money rather than the welfare of their men its going to turn bad. If the said person (who shall remain nameless) had any interest in fixing what is clearly a very shabby system then he would be pressing for change. The case is the opposite. One could suppose that as long as he gets his take he doesn't care.
Morale is terrible right now. more people are leaving than are joining which speaks volumes. That certain person should be pressing the government for more personel and better working conditions, but because he does not have to suffer the problems caused by the lack thereof does not bother. Oh and the bonus by the way for those who do not know is based upon the number of searchs and boardings conducted by the N.S. vessels each year so at pressent with the crappy conditions they manage to earn the s*** his bonus so why should he bother to upset that. No I do think the point of mr you know whos bonus is quite pertinent to "low morale" problem raised in the report.
After all if your happy doing nothing why bother to do something (which would take effort) when you really have no inclination to bother.

fine to offer a report but as in all organisations there have to be reasonable soloutions to percieved problems. There has to be some negotiation..you can 't just knock a situatiom point blank and wait for the other side to offer a soloution..whole thing seems like a waste of time if they can't offer viable soloutions.

The solution........... Increase of numbers (a big increase) and change in working conditions yto attract new recruits and keeps the ones we already have. Of course how to implement such an idea. The bottom line is the defence budget needs a boost to allow for the change which the naval service needs to undergo. Without change (quickly) and at the rate people leave the time may be approaching where there is not enough personel to crew all 8 ships. Now that would be a disaster. Remind by the way hpt did that not happen at some stage in the past.

[Marius]

Sloppy personalised attack on a totally dedicated individual. Sloppy work, G-2. And your "solution" should be submitted in the original crayon.

[G-2]

Sloppy personalised attack on a totally dedicated individual.

dedicated to what exactly, certainly not the welfare and well being of the enlisted men of the service. And it is directed at the said individual because that person must bear some blame for a situation they are doing nothing to rectify.

Sloppy work, G-2. And your "solution" should be submitted in the original crayon.

Sloppy, well you could try providing something to refute what I have said, instead you have resorted to throwing insults. Oh and I have yet to see you provide any solution at all, even a basic possible idea of how to solve the problem.

[hptmurphy]

I think all along oceans points are coming from a very promising positive nature and he and other who exist are like minded evertale the reigns of power it could be a very different service for all those serving.

If the people who submit the reports were to sit down and didcuss and nefgotiate the oints a workable soloution . Un fortuneatey in bothe camps there are parties dug in behind there own pkilosophys with very little chance to at least form a working body in order to sort these precieved problems out.l

[G-2]

A lot to learn

I hope this business fizzles out and dies...If you join the Navy, you accept sea going. If your personal (family) circumstances change or if the Service requires more of you than you can comfortably deliver then you should leave. Public campaigns of this nature are an embarassment. No sympathy here.

You seem to think the problem is that people simply do not want to go to sea. That perception is incorrect. A person would not join the NS if they were adverse to the idea of going out on patrol, however the conditions under which seagoing exists in our NS is far from an acceptable arrangement. In no other professional modern navy (western anyway) does the crew of the ship come back from a patrol of whatever length and then spend the next two weeks (most of it anyway) prepping the ship to go on another patrol yet here we do.... Why?
This is one of a number of problems contributing to low morale in the service. The reason I haul up mr you know who for this is because he is not making any effort to change this problem. I cited his yearly bonus to highlight the fact that he currently has no incentive to bother fixing this growing problem. If on a given year in the future he were not to receive said bonus because of personnel shortage he might sit up and notice, but that is unlikely to happen in his tenure.

Sloppy personalised attack on a totally dedicated individual.

related to him are you?

[Farel']

G-2 NOC - I think there is plenty of talent in the NS to sort the problem. The attack on he who shall remain nameless is legitimate as long as it is objective and not personalised and focussed on specifics. It is however unfair to talk about bonus, everyone knows he has no interest in financial bonuses - and if you don't know that then check it out before you make the accusation again!

On the positive side the fact that a Navy ship Ethna or Emer made it to the top 50 companies to work suggests that the solution should not be that difficult to find.

Bottom line; I reckon on this, like most HR problems is communications and there can be no question but there is a need to reinforce the communications structure within the Irish Navy, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

In the final analysis people must be sure that they know where they stand in terms of the "de facto" situation and what they want. They must note the time off they get which is personal to them, between them and where they ship and be prepared to trade that for a set allocation of probably a few extra days which will be tightly controlled and leave NO flexibility - that is where this is going.

Hpt has touhced on it - what do people REALL Y want because there is a real dange of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[ocean]

Even the dogs in the street know that he has no interest in bonus!

[Goldie fish]

G2.

I will ask that if you are making a point, you do so without making reference to identifiable individuals.
Make your point, and keep it civil please. Do not refer to those who are unable to defend themselves here,unless you are willing to identify yourself.
Veiled insults have no place on this website.