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  • Purely in terms of upgrades of light guns in-situ, I see there are examples of ex-communist block, 2x23mm, and 3x20mm AA (sit on) mounts, upgraded with new sights and laser range finders etc. And mated with 2 or 4 manpad missiles,.. for those on a budget...!

    E.g.s Russian and Polish, zu-23m and zur-23 pilica respectively, and ex-Yugoslav type Zastava M55.

    So, almost CIWS....
    Also noting the MBDA company MPCV, that mates 2 Mistral missiles, either side of a light gun (HMG?) In a RWS mount, thought intended for a vehicle.

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    • Originally posted by WhingeNot View Post
      Purely in terms of upgrades of light guns in-situ, I see there are examples of ex-communist block, 2x23mm, and 3x20mm AA (sit on) mounts, upgraded with new sights and laser range finders etc. And mated with 2 or 4 manpad missiles,.. for those on a budget...!

      E.g.s Russian and Polish, zu-23m and zur-23 pilica respectively, and ex-Yugoslav type Zastava M55.

      So, almost CIWS....
      Also noting the MBDA company MPCV, that mates 2 Mistral missiles, either side of a light gun (HMG?) In a RWS mount, thought intended for a vehicle.
      In the case of all of our existing ships we are adequate with our main gun calibre at 76mm and 57mm. The FCS and management of combat instances needs improvement. Our range of low calibre weapons, all manually aimed and fired may not be able to deal with swarm attacks. I would retain GPMG and HMG but would see a need to replace the 20mm guns with a combined 30mm + Martlet Missiles on the same mount, and controlled by FCS. This would fill the gap of dealing with fast boats at 4nm inwards and drones and helicopters at a similar distance. We still need to consider AAM for fast jets.

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      • If there is an air threat then first you have to detect, track, classify an then engage. The first three parts have nothing to do with weapons either active or passive but with the sensors and the fusion of the data to allow the commander of the vessel to make the right call. The sensors will include an air search radar, IR/laser sensors and a good ESM system. These then need to feed a good CMS or which there are new modular versions that can be adapted to the customer needs. Last week when the NS exercised with the RN we may have been smug as to the main weapons but those Batch 2 River class have many of those sensors and a CMS to fuse the information together. That is why in a large part their cost was so much more than out SBs (the other parts being basically a sweetner to BAe).

        And before everyone starts plastering new guns systems all over a ship it needs to be equipped with a decoy system. This can consist of passive effectors such as chaff or active effectors such as jammers. This is because from the combat experience so far they together with onboard jamming systems have proven more effective than many of the hard kill systems.

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        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          In the case of all of our existing ships we are adequate with our main gun calibre at 76mm and 57mm. The FCS and management of combat instances needs improvement. Our range of low calibre weapons, all manually aimed and fired may not be able to deal with swarm attacks. I would retain GPMG and HMG but would see a need to replace the 20mm guns with a combined 30mm + Martlet Missiles on the same mount, and controlled by FCS. This would fill the gap of dealing with fast boats at 4nm inwards and drones and helicopters at a similar distance. We still need to consider AAM for fast jets.

          USN and RN have 7.62mm optical miniguns to deal with swarm attacks


          Obviously they have heavier armament and can detect them further out

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            USN and RN have 7.62mm optical miniguns to deal with swarm attacks


            Obviously they have heavier armament and can detect them further out
            The mini-gun was developed as a defensive weapon initially used on helicopters to give suppressive fire to break up attacks. It was later fitted to army vehicles such as Humvees and gained a positive reputation that gave it's own immunity from attack in theatre. After USS Cole it was fitted to Naval ships, including RN ships, as a 1000m Defence shield from boat attacks. It would be a good addition to our ships (2) but still doesn't reach far enough. In my view we still need a rapid fire reach to about 4000m. It goes without saying that any FCS and CMS will always INCLUDE decoy systems and detection systems. We have a history of not retaining gained systems as we acquire ships. Our only hope now is some retro-fitting on our newer ships.

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            • DF equipment development plan:
              An important sub-programme is the modernisation of each of the ships’ 76mm main gun primary armament. The objective of the project is to identify and carry out upgrades to ensure availability for the rest of the technical life.
              From the wording this could be the P50 class

              Do the P50s and P60s have the same 76mm versions?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                DF equipment development plan:


                From the wording this could be the P50 class

                Do the P50s and P60s have the same 76mm versions?
                I remember someone saying a few months back that the upgrades had already begun, but I seem to remember the 76 fitted to some ships is a second hand unit.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                • P51 Roisin OTO Melara [now Leonardo] 76mm was acquired from Britain's Royal Navy . It had been used by them as a shore based instructional / practice weapon purchased when the Peacock Class was launched.
                  Sarsfield

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                  • 30mm auto cannon on Dutch OPV ZrMs Zeeland
                    #GUNEX in other words a 'target practice' with the OTO Melara Marlin-WS (30mm). Marlin-WS stands for Modular Advanced Remotely controlled Lightweight Naval Weapon Station .. Graduation cap Who knows which Dutch #marineschepen have this weapon system even more?
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      I remember someone saying a few months back that the upgrades had already begun, but I seem to remember the 76 fitted to some ships is a second hand unit.
                      Could always fit one to the new NSR launches..even if it is second hand
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • ...and there's a 76mm turret in front of that 30mm turret,to do the senior hurling.

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                        • Originally posted by Sarsfield View Post
                          P51 Roisin OTO Melara [now Leonardo] 76mm was acquired from Britain's Royal Navy . It had been used by them as a shore based instructional / practice weapon purchased when the Peacock Class was launched.
                          Are not all the 76mm mounts reconditioned units? With the exception of those on the Peacocks.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            Are not all the 76mm mounts reconditioned units? With the exception of those on the Peacocks.
                            The Upgraded Bofors 40mm that went on the P20s replaced guns that dated from 1948. Naval guns last longer. It is a gun in widespread use since the 70s, and while mechanically comparatively labour intensive, there are plenty of perfectly serviceable 2nd hand guns available.
                            It does require some space in the deck below though. the Comparable 57mm does not.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              The Upgraded Bofors 40mm that went on the P20s replaced guns that dated from 1948. Naval guns last longer. It is a gun in widespread use since the 70s, and while mechanically comparatively labour intensive, there are plenty of perfectly serviceable 2nd hand guns available.
                              It does require some space in the deck below though. the Comparable 57mm does not.
                              Are you running for election?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                The Upgraded Bofors 40mm that went on the P20s replaced guns that dated from 1948. Naval guns last longer. It is a gun in widespread use since the 70s, and while mechanically comparatively labour intensive, there are plenty of perfectly serviceable 2nd hand guns available.
                                It does require some space in the deck below though. the Comparable 57mm does not.
                                But can they fire the latest fancy ammo that would be a game changer in capability when linked to a better FCS?

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