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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Can we do Piranha V wih Samson RWS with 40mm CTA and MMP?
    Id swap out the CTA for the Bushmaster 35/50mm

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by apc View Post
    Id swap out the CTA for the Bushmaster 35/50mm
    why? CTA too new?

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  4. #278
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    ya, troubled developement apparently and to my knowledge only 2 platforms using the same gun currently using the ammunition

  5. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by apc View Post
    ya, troubled developement apparently and to my knowledge only 2 platforms using the same gun currently using the ammunition
    counterargument: Development is gone for a while now and both British Army and French Army are not exactly small customers. And that thing is smaller than a Bushmaster 30mm.

  6. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    counterargument: Development is gone for a while now and both British Army and French Army are not exactly small customers. And that thing is smaller than a Bushmaster 30mm.
    in developement for over 10 years but I think is still rather new. CTA international is a joint venture between BAE and Nextar so The Brits and the French have a vested interest in it hence they so far are the only users. I have a funny feeling that they maybe the only users for some time yet. When you think a;; new IFV programmes outside of UK and France have been with conventional ammunition

  7. #281
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    true. It'll likely take the next Mali or Desert Storm to prove the gun. 35/50 is a huge gun though. Won't fir into Samson or similar.

  8. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Can we do Piranha V wih Samson RWS with 40mm CTA and MMP?
    The Samson RWS is a modular system so it can fit a wide range of customer defined equipment. As most new build vehicles and systems are fully digital which eases integration. Rather than the Samson RWS (bit of issue with Israeli gear) we could take its Australian cousin the EOS T2000, fitted with a 30mm ABM cannon and either MMP/EuroSpike etc.

  9. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The Samson RWS is a modular system so it can fit a wide range of customer defined equipment. As most new build vehicles and systems are fully digital which eases integration. Rather than the Samson RWS (bit of issue with Israeli gear) we could take its Australian cousin the EOS T2000, fitted with a 30mm ABM cannon and either MMP/EuroSpike etc.
    I didn't know the EOS. I fully agree on Israeli kit, hence MMP, not Spike One question: SAMSON lets the commander stick their head out. Can they do that in EOS?

  10. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    I didn't know the EOS. I fully agree on Israeli kit, hence MMP, not Spike One question: SAMSON lets the commander stick their head out. Can they do that in EOS?
    https://www.eos-aus.com/wp-content/u...ureAUS_WEB.pdf

    It is based on the UT30 but made in Australia, the Spike ER can be replaced by MMP and the turret can be manned or unmanned.
    (Sorry mixed the Samson and UT30)
    Last edited by EUFighter; 28th June 2020 at 20:38.

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  12. #285
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    A list of the Turrets and weapons for the latest Spanish purchase of 348 Piranha V

    Main Version (IFV + combat reconaissance version)--> Turret UT-30 MK2 (Elbit+Navantia+Expal). Bushmaster MKII 30mm/40mm+Spike LR+machine guns

    Engineering version: RWS 12'7mm--> Minisamson (Rafael+tecnobit)

    Recon and artillery observer--> Guardian RWS 12'7mm --> Escribano

    COmmand section--> Maybe OtoMelara+indra+escribano 30mm hitfist (no missiles)

    Command company--> Army need 30mm+missiles...so the most important factor... the price will be the key (Elbit again in a simplified version or Rafael Samson 30mm?)

    Tankbuster Role (marines and future army)--> Otomelara (120mm)+spanish partners.

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  14. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    https://www.eos-aus.com/wp-content/u...ureAUS_WEB.pdf

    It is based on the UT30 but made in Australia, the Spike ER can be replaced by MMP and the turret can be manned or unmanned.
    (Sorry mixed the Samson and UT30)
    Samson is unmanned, but built in such a way that, if the commander wants their head shot off, they can stick said appendage out.
    Last edited by Graylion; 29th June 2020 at 10:12.

  15. #287
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    The Spanish army are currently in the final phase of initial testing of the turrets systems for their VCR Dragon (Piranha V) program. They are testing both manned and unmanned turrets. The contenders are the Samson MK2, the UT-30 and the Hitfist. It is intended that most of the IFV versions will get an unmanned turret but that the commander vehicles will have manned turrets.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNP--00vEk4

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  17. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The Spanish army are currently in the final phase of initial testing of the turrets systems for their VCR Dragon (Piranha V) program. They are testing both manned and unmanned turrets. The contenders are the Samson MK2, the UT-30 and the Hitfist. It is intended that most of the IFV versions will get an unmanned turret but that the commander vehicles will have manned turrets.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNP--00vEk4
    Hitfist sounds good, but I am missing provision for ATGM

  18. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Hitfist sounds good, but I am missing provision for ATGM
    The only option AFAIK is one launcher on each side, not optimal.
    The Israeli turrets seem to be a generation ahead especially with the other systems they have integrated such as IronVision, Iron Fist, Trophy etc. It was interesting that the LANCE turret is not in the running as i is already in service on their Piranha III's.

  19. #290
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  20. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Any idea of the size?

    The USAF tried something similar in the 1960's for NORAD with their "Texas Towers", manned platforms, but based upon an oil platform design.
    Perhaps we can install a radar and sonar on the old Kinsale gas platform? And if that works do the same when the Corib field when it closes

  21. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Any idea of the size?

    The USAF tried something similar in the 1960's for NORAD with their "Texas Towers", manned platforms, but based upon an oil platform design.
    Perhaps we can install a radar and sonar on the old Kinsale gas platform? And if that works do the same when the Corib field when it closes
    https://amti.csis.org/exploring-chin...ocean-network/

    Appears to be similar in size to some of the very large bouys that ILS Granuille has handled in the past

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  23. #293
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    Kinsale platforms will be chopped and removed shortly. Plenty of isolated headlands with no fear of erosion available.
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  24. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The only option AFAIK is one launcher on each side, not optimal.
    The Israeli turrets seem to be a generation ahead especially with the other systems they have integrated such as IronVision, Iron Fist, Trophy etc. It was interesting that the LANCE turret is not in the running as i is already in service on their Piranha III's.
    They really are. Every time I look at competitors, the Israely turrets just come up more thought through.

  25. #295
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    While we were discussing "should we join NATO if attacked by Elbonia" The Chieftain was doing a video about how to bugger Elbonia by buying the wrong AFVs!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOi7ovukC38

    The choice of which medium tank to buy after WW2 to completely bugger the Elbonia Army is an interesting choice and the reasons why! (19:56 to 34:56)

  26. #296
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    Spain has finally signed oders for its next APC/IVF the VCR (Piranha V),GDELS share is $870 for the vehicles:
    https://defence-blog.com/news/army/s...-vehicles.html

    Indra will supply the BMS for the vehicles:
    https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...hitecture.html

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  28. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Spain has finally signed oders for its next APC/IVF the VCR (Piranha V),GDELS share is $870 for the vehicles:
    https://defence-blog.com/news/army/s...-vehicles.html

    Indra will supply the BMS for the vehicles:
    https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...hitecture.html
    That will give an idea of the cost (likely to be higher) when the MOWAGs require replacement

  29. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    That will give an idea of the cost (likely to be higher) when the MOWAGs require replacement
    Does €2.5m each include turrets? If they are getting up to 1000, We won't get anywhere near as good a deal when we only get max 100.
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  31. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Does €2.5m each include turrets? If they are getting up to 1000, We won't get anywhere near as good a deal when we only get max 100.
    Think the Boxer comes in around €2m each so possibly

  32. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Does €2.5m each include turrets? If they are getting up to 1000, We won't get anywhere near as good a deal when we only get max 100.
    This is only the initial contract for 348 vehicles, GDELS gets €733m so each vehicle will be €2.1, Indra gets €150m so the BMS will be €0.43 per vehicle, the rest of the €1,740m will be for the turrets, weapon systems, spares and training. So about €5.0m per fully equipped vehicle.

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