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  1. #1
    BIRDDOG
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    Lightbulb Fast Patrol Boats.

    Do any of the naval members here believe that there could be a requirement for Fast Patrol Boats. The type of vessel I would have in mind is the Intermarine MV85.

    This vessel has the following performance:

    Dash Speed: 42 Kts
    Cruise: 18 Kts
    Range: 850Nm at 18 Kts
    Crew: 13
    Weapons: Up to 30mm cannon.

    More info at;

    WWW.intermarine.it/mine/mv85.htm

    These vessels could be used for coastal protection, anti drugs and general smuggeling, inshore fisheries, SAR, harbour patrols, crew training before moving to larger offshore vessels. Possibily a fleet of four could be split in two. Two vessels based in Cork and two based at a constructed pier at Renmore Bks in Galway. This would give coverage to the NW coast without wasting fuel and time steaming from Cork.

    Whats everybodies opinion?

  2. #2
    Sqdn. Ldr Silver's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Sounds like a great idea to me !
    Such vessels could be "shared" with the NSR also.

    Unfortunetly the "powers-that-be" seem to have mental block when it comes to expanding the NS

  3. #3
    Brigadier General
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    Definitly a good idea, during the second world temper tantrum the Yanks could build up to 9 of their PT boats, for the price of one destroyer.
    With modern methods, such boats could be developed and built here in Ireland.IMHO. Probally the wepons, nav gear and engins would have to be imported.
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  4. #4
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    MV85


    MV115

    This has been a pet topic of mine for some time.NSR boats are fine,tho far from ideal for their percieved purpose. Also the inshore areas are being used for smuggling of drugs etc and a suitable vessel to patrol these areas is always a requirment,if even something smaller than the Peacocks.
    There is a company in Carrigaline,Cork,Caramarine ,who specialise in High speed launches,and have built Pilot launches and Luxury Yachts. They are a Part of the VT group,who make the Sentinel Launches for the HM Customs. No doubt if required they could construct a craft suitable for Irish waters. Ireland has a history of successful Boatbuilding,though few companies still exist.

    Cara Marine Fisheries Patrol Boat

    However Irish waters,particularly the west coast would not be completely suitable for Fast Patrol Boats for the majority of the year. The fuel used ploughing through the rough seas could be better used on a more seaworthy,if slower conventially powered vessel.The east coast and the many large Harbours may be more acceptable for this type of boat,but the whole package is required. My personal favourite for the whole Inshore patrol, NSR role has always been that used By the HM Customs Service Made by the same Company who brought you the River class Patrol Vessel(see the other post)


    It has everything we need really,and is already in use in the irish sea.More information here.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  5. #5
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Here is the Current craft in use by the Cork Coy ASM. Draw your own conclusions.
    Attached Images Attached Images


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  6. #6
    C/S
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    Does the Cork ASM really have something that sophisticated?

  7. #7
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    He means the orange thing in the bottom left
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  8. #8
    Muff Diver
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    As already stated, the west coast of Ireland is far from ideal to be operating these vessels, don't get me wrong, i'd love such a toy but thats what it would be.

    All the current drug interdiction work is intelligence based, it mostly involves observation and if a boarding is to be done they usually have been observing for half a day or more, to observe for these lengths requires endurance both distance and weather which is better provided by larger craft.

    Opportunistic boarding from small craft would destroy a tourist industry before it would solve europe's drug problem.
    No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
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  9. #9
    CQMS
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    What about for other areas such as the shannon estuary and the relatively sheltered waters of the irish sea? The PVs,limited as they may be are more suitable for the exposed atlantic waters of the west coast,while a smaller boat would be more practical.
    Consider also the seakeeping qualities of the RNLI boats based along the west coast that have often assisted the NS in rescues beyond 100 miles off the west and southwest coast. Dont write off small boats straight away...however it must be said that most fast patrol boats are based in sheltered waters such as the med,carribean, persian gulf, and northern european waters.
    Fail to prepare....prepare to FAIL!

  10. #10
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Scuse me for being thick but was this fast boat thing tried about sixty years ago and was deemed a failure.......remember the MTBS.......The Peacocks are fine for inshore work and if it gets too inshore drop the RIBs ....thats what they are there for..The only problem with the Peacocks is that we didn't buy more of them.

    FPBs are not the way to go because of the structure of the NS vessels have to have a livability factor due to nature of patrolling.....the home for tea syndrome has long been banished.Operational vessels will never be based out side of haukbowline due to security concerns.If you tie a FPB up in galway...where does the crew live ....where are the weapons stored.....maintaince......service and support.

    Its complete fantasy to think that each backwater in the country will have its own mini naval base and those from The NSR who want there own cabin cruisers ....get with the programme ......up to recently your only assets were BP 18s...stop ****ing whinging.......if you want to get seasick go to sea.....the days of messing about on the river are gone for ever.....These overated pleasure craft are of no significant benefit to the DF. This pleasure craft are fine for some towel head prince cruising around the gulf but off the west coast of Ireland....... c'mon!.....If the NSR want to partake in the big picture be happy with going to sea with the rest of the Navy.This illusion of your own private cabin cruiser fleet is balderdash.

    The portal protection fantasy died years ago....you are now relief crews for naval vessels and be proud of it......I remember a Time when ships captains proactively pursued a policy of NO Sluggies .....and that was only along side......Perish the thought of ever going to sea.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  11. #11
    CQMS
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    HPT- the only contribution to this thread by a serving NSR member was anti-FPB. Just because someone makes unsolicited suggestions about the future direction to be taken by the NSR does not make them a member.

    I recently returned from a two week patrol more convinced than ever that this is our future. I have never experienced anything but friendship and encouragement on any of the eight ships I have served on since 1992. The yacht club mentality is all but dead in the NSR and good riddance.

    The greatest factor which will determine the level of competency a reservist can achieve is the number of man-weeks provided for him to train. the Idea that the Slua could ever have been an effective reserve with only one week's training a year is maddness.

    I know that in general NS members appreciate our efforts. Many of them are ex FCA members who understand reserve service. There is no doubt that the NSR has its fair share of muppets. Let he whos unit is without muppets cast the first stone.

  12. #12
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    You misinterpret what I post.

    I believe that The NSR has risen to a level which it could never have envisaged during the 70s and 80s and rightly so.I 'm glad to hear that there is an improved attitude towards the NSR amongnst the Navy now on the subject of your two weeks service I'm glad you enjoyed it and of your service on eight ships over 11 years ...congrats as this was unheard of in the past....sadly my own service was confined to two ships ....for three years, two and a half years on one particular vessel that is twenty four seven twelve three sixfive.....You could get off after your two weeks holiday.......you could even select when you could go.

    I've deleted the rest of what I was about to post as it would cause offence.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  13. #13
    CQMS
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    HPT - Don't censor your thoughts on my behalf, I'm a big boy. I'm only pointing out that this FPB fantasy thread is not an NSR venture.

    I realise that that in the eyes of professional seamen I'm just a wannabe and that its only their good manners that (usually) keeps them from telling me. But what are all volunteer reservists? Do FCA members not constantly listen to the derision of the PDF. Having being a member of the PDF and RDF you have the best perspective to judge whether or not we are wasting our time.

    I can never invest enough time to aquire all the skils of a regular, while holding down a job and a relationship. All I can do is train for certain tasks and seek to releave some of the ship's workload. I envy our O/S's and AB's. They are getting more training in a year than I had access to in five. This new generation will soon make their officers and NCO's look even more out of our depth. I know that the skills defict gets worse as you go up through the ranks.

    I'm not claiming to be salty Murph, I'm just pointing out that I always tried to improve myself. Don't worry about pointing out our failings, or the idiots who let us down. You won't be telling me what I don't already know.

    So give me your best shot, you'll feel better!!

  14. #14
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    As I said the NSR are to be applauded in the transition from fantasy sailors to actual ships crews and it should be remembered that when they are partaking in these duties they are on of the few units in the DF who warrant the staus of being operational.

    NS vessels do not carry passengers and do not go on pleasure rides....All ships crew have a role to play and all patrols are operational.These roles are not intended lightly as a ships crew are unaware of the full nature of a patrol until they actually are at sea...Anything could happen.....rescues......boardings ....ATCP......disasters.

    I only get a bit miffed when I believe that people don't take the role of ships crew seriously but anybody who goes to sea fully understanding their obligations to their fellow crewmen be they reserve or fulltimers is entitled to the heigth of respect.

    While the Army reserve partake in training roles with the Army they are rarely called upon to act operationally and as a result are not always fully aware of the implications of their actions.Its one thing to act the part....but its another to be the part!
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  15. #15
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by hptmurphy
    .

    NS vessels do not carry passengers and do not go on pleasure rides....
    I beg to differ on this point:D

    I got a spin down river on Niamh recently,as did the crews families,and a crowd of schoolgirlsand most of the "crew" who went with Eithne to St Petersberg were passengers along for the sightseeing. Many have not been "to sea" since eithne went to NY for the first time all those years ago


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  16. #16
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    yeah okaybut these are not operational patrols ....merely jollies...trust you to nit pick.ALL overseas visits are inhabited by people who shouldn't be there.....as for the harbour jollies mere PR.....what were you doing on it?......did they require extra ballast!
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

  17. #17
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    They needed someone to keep an eye on the schoolgirls...


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  18. #18
    Muff Diver
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    Dug this out and cleaned it up, photo taken by Lt. Kennedy SM (Retd.)
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    No Beast so fell that knows no pity,
    No Beast am I, For I know no pity...

  19. #19
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    New Boats for Naval service Reserve?

    Reading an Cosantoir recently, I was very interested in some of the comments of the Flag officer, firstly of Praise for the Naval Service Reserve, and secondly a possible replacement of the Motor training Launches.

    At able seaman and leading seaman level it is going very well. Their (The NSR)standards of basic seamanship and Turn-out have improved greatly and it is a credit to the hard work they have put it. On Inspections now I have difficulty picking out Naval Reserve personnel from the rest.

    In the past many of our personnel used to be quite condescending about the "Sluggies", as they were called, but now out Coxn's and executive officers are ringing Reserve units looking for personnel.
    In the longer term we have to find a similar role for the NCOs and Officers, who, unless they are full time mariners, are bound to lack the experience of their NS counterparts.
    One thing that I think would help would be the replacment of the MTLs with Larger and more up to date boats that could deliver a wider range of services. If they had more capable work boats it would allow the reserve to obtain a more defined role in the ports where they operate. It would also allow the reserve to provide support for the regular Naval service in a range of tasks. Typical examples would be providing a platform for the NS Diving Section or for NS sections providing maritime security.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  20. #20
    C/S
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    I get the impression that the integration between reserve and permanent units has been more successful in the Navy as opposed to the Army
    There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

  21. #21
    Tim Horgan Goldie fish's Avatar
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    That seems to be the case.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

  22. #22
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    What Shape And Size Would these vessels most likely be and if the are to allow the NSR to provide the likes of ''Maritime Security'' what type of armanents would they carry 12.7/25/30mm???
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
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  23. #23
    Bitter Boy
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    They need to get something at least 20m if it is to be seaworthy enough.

    For any maritime security role you would need at least a GPMG to be credible.
    Last edited by Bitter Boy; 9th October 2005 at 16:15.

  24. #24
    C/S Cosantor's Avatar
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    I'd imagine that they would be something of the lines of the Patrol craft used by the Royal Navy , University Royal Navy Units (URNU).

    Last edited by Cosantor; 20th March 2006 at 11:37.
    "Dwight D. Eisenhower: The best morale exists when you never hear the word mentioned. When you hear it it's usually lousy.

  25. #25
    Man, I'm pretty! The Sultan's Avatar
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    So in other words, the regulars/enlisted ranks can do their jobs, but the officers cant?

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