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  • While it would be great to see the NSR with a 30-35m vessel this is likely a step too much at this time. If we look at the UK and France both have similar 20m vessels that would be good as a common vessel for the NSR. The Brits use the Archer class, most notably with the University Royal Naval Units while the French Gendarmerie Maritime use the VCSM Elorn class. Given that the URNU operate this size of vessel it should be well within the means on the NSR to do so also. The size allows an endurance of around 4 day and they could be fitted with Rhino's if required.

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      While it would be great to see the NSR with a 30-35m vessel this is likely a step too much at this time. If we look at the UK and France both have similar 20m vessels that would be good as a common vessel for the NSR. The Brits use the Archer class, most notably with the University Royal Naval Units while the French Gendarmerie Maritime use the VCSM Elorn class. Given that the URNU operate this size of vessel it should be well within the means on the NSR to do so also. The size allows an endurance of around 4 day and they could be fitted with Rhino's if required.
      Bingo

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      • When they Lose Gib to the spanish, we can offer them a few quid for the nice Archers of the Gibraltar Squadron they use to ward off the Spanish Navy.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
          While it would be great to see the NSR with a 30-35m vessel this is likely a step too much at this time. If we look at the UK and France both have similar 20m vessels that would be good as a common vessel for the NSR. The Brits use the Archer class, most notably with the University Royal Naval Units while the French Gendarmerie Maritime use the VCSM Elorn class. Given that the URNU operate this size of vessel it should be well within the means on the NSR to do so also. The size allows an endurance of around 4 day and they could be fitted with Rhino's if required.
          The concept of operations for the NSR is to give them sea legs and operate to a level where they are familiar with watchkeeping, communications , navigation, craft handling, and become familar with their area of operations. When together in company they could practice station keeping. Boarding except each other is not required as they would not be normally tasked for FP. Size is critical for tasking, and duration at sea is subject to the crafts design and amenities. I was a cadre member for No.4 Coy and also in the Group for all companies. Whalers were embarrassing, followed by accidental donations of craft, and other motor craft picked up along the way. They deserve an opportunity to become part of a Naval Force on water. A Basic RHIB in winter could not be tasked without frequent change of crew. The very least start-up craft should be of RHIB design with cabin and some amenities to allow for tasking within it's fuel range.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            The concept of operations for the NSR is to give them sea legs and operate to a level where they are familiar with watchkeeping, communications , navigation, craft handling, and become familar with their area of operations. When together in company they could practice station keeping. Boarding except each other is not required as they would not be normally tasked for FP. Size is critical for tasking, and duration at sea is subject to the crafts design and amenities. I was a cadre member for No.4 Coy and also in the Group for all companies. Whalers were embarrassing, followed by accidental donations of craft, and other motor craft picked up along the way. They deserve an opportunity to become part of a Naval Force on water. A Basic RHIB in winter could not be tasked without frequent change of crew. The very least start-up craft should be of RHIB design with cabin and some amenities to allow for tasking within it's fuel range.
            I really like your above and I understand you have significant knowledge in the field. I would reiterate though that the units do need to be brought up to strength first and other lingering questions on how we organise, promote and incentivise reserve service need to be looked into.

            - The above proposal would require significantly more time with the unit so as to ensure that members get sufficient time to keep skills fresh.
            - Significant cadre would be required from the NS at a time where where there is a manning shortage.
            - To be used for regular NS taskings, the boats would essentially be weekend use only outside of predefined possibly annual training. Requesting half the unit (boat crew, command element, transports, etc) to take leave from work to man the boat on a few days notice for 0700 on a Tuesday just isn't going to happen in modern Ireland. Maybe you would have managed forty years ago but now all units have a hard core who have significant time they can invest, a reliable inner layer who give what they can to unit but are limited by work/family commitments and significant transient elements who you will see when you see.
            - I just think the Reserve in general would need to be brought up to at least the UK standard of organisation, funding (both for units, pay and expenses) before the NSR could have a crack at the above. I've nattered on about pay and conditions on here for reserve here for years and I know it's a dirty topic but the Reserve is competing with so many other pursuits people have in their busy lives. Paid training nights and for ALL structured training even at unit level, more varied courses and employment protection would give the NSR a fighting chance of manning above. Of course PDF pay and conditions must take priority of course!!!!!!!

            Don't get me wrong, it's something to aspire to but you need to rebuild from the ground up to generate useful and attractive to join formations. Throwing expensive in an Irish context assets at the units is a waste for now.

            Unpopular opinion possibly but it's reflective of the current state of play in 2020.

            The NSR received some good visibility and kudos for its assistance during the current Covid crisis. Time to use that and crack on!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
              I really like your above and I understand you have significant knowledge in the field. I would reiterate though that the units do need to be brought up to strength first and other lingering questions on how we organise, promote and incentivise reserve service need to be looked into.

              - The above proposal would require significantly more time with the unit so as to ensure that members get sufficient time to keep skills fresh.
              - Significant cadre would be required from the NS at a time where where there is a manning shortage.
              - To be used for regular NS taskings, the boats would essentially be weekend use only outside of predefined possibly annual training. Requesting half the unit (boat crew, command element, transports, etc) to take leave from work to man the boat on a few days notice for 0700 on a Tuesday just isn't going to happen in modern Ireland. Maybe you would have managed forty years ago but now all units have a hard core who have significant time they can invest, a reliable inner layer who give what they can to unit but are limited by work/family commitments and significant transient elements who you will see when you see.
              - I just think the Reserve in general would need to be brought up to at least the UK standard of organisation, funding (both for units, pay and expenses) before the NSR could have a crack at the above. I've nattered on about pay and conditions on here for reserve here for years and I know it's a dirty topic but the Reserve is competing with so many other pursuits people have in their busy lives. Paid training nights and for ALL structured training even at unit level, more varied courses and employment protection would give the NSR a fighting chance of manning above. Of course PDF pay and conditions must take priority of course!!!!!!!

              Don't get me wrong, it's something to aspire to but you need to rebuild from the ground up to generate useful and attractive to join formations. Throwing expensive in an Irish context assets at the units is a waste for now.

              Unpopular opinion possibly but it's reflective of the current state of play in 2020.

              The NSR received some good visibility and kudos for its assistance during the current Covid crisis. Time to use that and crack on!
              Well said - 100% agree with your points RE: incentivising Reserve service
              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                When they Lose Gib to the spanish, we can offer them a few quid for the nice Archers of the Gibraltar Squadron they use to ward off the Spanish Navy.
                They have replaced the Archers with the 2 Scimitar class they originally had for coastal work in NI. There is already a plan to replace the Scimitars with a larger more capable pair of vessels.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                  They have replaced the Archers with the 2 Scimitar class they originally had for coastal work in NI. There is already a plan to replace the Scimitars with a larger more capable pair of vessels.
                  Read more on this story????https://www.forces.net/news/gibraltar/defending-british-sovereignty-continuing-mission-navy-gibraltarThe Royal Navy’s Gibraltar Squa...


                  For anyone who has interest. British Forces TV did a piece on the unit recently.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                    They have replaced the Archers with the 2 Scimitar class they originally had for coastal work in NI. There is already a plan to replace the Scimitars with a larger more capable pair of vessels.
                    I thought it was the other way around.
                    Do they want the peacocks back? Straight swap? Spannies might stay out of British GIB waters if there is a 76mm and not just a 7.62mm to contend with.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      When they Lose Gib to the spanish.
                      I know your'e joking .... but technically the UK don't own it, thus it is not theirs to lose. Whitehall just kind of run it as caretakers on behalf of the British Crown and for the convenience of the folk at Fort Meade, MD (which is kind of why it will never end up with Spain).

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
                        I know your'e joking .... but technically the UK don't own it, thus it is not theirs to lose. Whitehall just kind of run it as caretakers on behalf of the British Crown and for the convenience of the folk at Fort Meade, MD (which is kind of why it will never end up with Spain).
                        So the rumours of the 'Rock' just being a tarp cover a huge mast are true?

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                        • My hometown of Auckland has a few useful minor vessels built for government agencies that operate out of the harbour for inshore work all designed by a local firm Teknicraft which are always keen to export. All range from 10m to 20m and mostly Cats built of either steel or alloy.






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                          • Thanks very much, we have plenty of local boatbuilders here too. The shipping costs alone would double the price.

                            After building a survey vessel for the RN, Safehaven marine would be happy I'm sure to design a suitable craft for the Irish NSR, tested in the waters of Cork harbour, and built in cork (but launched a few hundred metres over the waaafurd border, but we don't talk about that).


                            RV Keary of the GSI is one of their boats, though Keary was built in Cape Town.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • I just had to put in a plug for my mates ... just on the off chance you see.

                              Those guys have pretty good designs. Do they get much support from government agencies locally for builds.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Anzac View Post
                                I just had to put in a plug for my mates ... just on the off chance you see.

                                Those guys have pretty good designs. Do they get much support from government agencies locally for builds.
                                The answer is no. However they are quietly building Pilot boats for many ( over 50) overseas harbours and some of our own. They also have built specialist craft for Naval and Military use. I like the fast survey launch for UK MOD but am not a fan of Cats-- a lot of strain with the hulls trying to separate. They could indeed build for our NSR. There is nothing wrong in the permanent cadre in taking the assigned unit boat for a trip to keep her in shape. Having something to run may encourage enlistments but doing nothing is not a productive option.

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