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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    An example is Germany, although it has many civilian air ambulance providers ADAC & DRF, cover is also provided by helicopters from federal police and the army.
    It is far from the norm and far from as widespread as you alluded to.

    There is no comparing the spare capacity in Germany's various state aviation arms Vs our very limited and already thinly spread resources. This was a Dept of Health requirement fulfilled with Dept of Defence assets. The second highest budgeted state department pinching from one the lowest funded. At least the Justice Dept provides the aircraft if not the crew.

    Previously there was a definite move towards more military oriented taskings under a previous GOCAC. It seems the ethos has reverted to more corporate than military under subsequent leadership. This is not a military role. It is predominantly provided by civilian operators worldwide. It should be a nuisance to the IAC. Something to be offloaded at the earliest opportunity. Yet it is embraced, publicised and glorified. Fake military helicopters (the 139's themselves being a wasted opportunity) playing a fake military role. A cynic would wonder what experience is more transferrable to civilian jobs for crew, HEMS(EAS is solely an Irish abbreviation) or troop transport.

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      An example is Germany, although it has many civilian air ambulance providers ADAC & DRF, cover is also provided by helicopters from federal police and the army.
      The operative word there is "cover" for the civilian providers. All militaries with rotary provide that to a lesser degree. But it is not core business and certainly not as a first responder for carting Mrs Jones off the farm to hospital after rolling her Quad Bike whilst rounding up the cows for milking.

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      • So EAS can’t be linked to military flying

        Flying to some previously unrecc’ed austere HLZ‘s (some are pre recced)
        Being on extremely short NTM
        MEDEVAC of extremely ill persons

        The HSE I believe now pays for the service but at the start they didn’t.

        Flying hours were cut by at least 10% around 2008

        Wages had a huge cut among the biggest cut was to AC pilots (ie the pilot retention scheme)

        When resources are lacking what does priority go to real world ops (GASU and EAS). It is a Government tasking and an order.

        The major issue is that the AC wasn’t given additional resources to complete the additional taskings
        Last edited by DeV; 10 June 2020, 17:10.

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        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          So EAS can’t be linked to military flying

          Flying to some previously unrecc’ed austere HLZ‘s (some are pre recced)
          Being on extremely short NTM
          MEDEVAC of extremely ill persons...
          yeah, they are - but they are 10% of military flying, not 95% of military flying. it also fails to note that it deprives the rest of the DF of RW airlift, ISTAR, resupply...

          how many times have 105mm battery's have done shoot and scoot in the last year?

          how many OP or JTAC teams have been able to practice helicopter insertion in the last year?

          how many of your Inf Bn CO's have never been involved in deploying, and then resupplying even one Coy by air, whether as Captains, Commandants or Lt Colonels? how many have done it three times in their careers?

          how many gun and missile battery's have got senior teams who haven't done more than two shoot and scoots in the last 5 years?

          claiming all this shit is compatible with military flying is like claiming that doing footdrill is akin with spending 6 months at one of the US Army's NTC's - wildly, and massively missing the big picture...

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          • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
            yeah, they are - but they are 10% of military flying, not 95% of military flying. it also fails to note that it deprives the rest of the DF of RW airlift, ISTAR, resupply...

            how many times have 105mm battery's have done shoot and scoot in the last year?

            how many OP or JTAC teams have been able to practice helicopter insertion in the last year?

            how many of your Inf Bn CO's have never been involved in deploying, and then resupplying even one Coy by air, whether as Captains, Commandants or Lt Colonels? how many have done it three times in their careers?

            how many gun and missile battery's have got senior teams who haven't done more than two shoot and scoots in the last 5 years?

            claiming all this shit is compatible with military flying is like claiming that doing footdrill is akin with spending 6 months at one of the US Army's NTC's - wildly, and massively missing the big picture...
            EAS provides training and probably more importantly currency in those areas which are critical to military ops.

            EAS is 1 heli out of 6 of the type in the inventory, I believe that there is a 2nd on standby if it goes U/S (which I don’t necessarily agree with). That realistically means that there should be 3 available on a daily basis for other taskings (allowing for 1 in maintenance).

            The major issue is lack of aircrew (which is a big drain of EAS as well and the backup a/c)

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            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              EAS provides training and probably more importantly currency in those areas which are critical to military ops.
              Military ops provide training and currency in military ops. I have yet to see a HEMS/EAS mission land under fire. Even in Leitrim.

              EAS is HEMS. HEMS is essentially landing off-airport. Landing off-airport is what helicopters do. There is no military specific experience gained.

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                EAS provides training and probably more importantly currency in those areas which are critical to military ops.
                Military rotary taskings are about operating a flight team which includes the all important crewman in a tactical and potentially hostile environment and embraces training and proficiency profiles like steep descent, low ground track, evasive manouver, high altitude pinnacle hover and confined area operations all involving the aircraft at higher payload capacities that are way beyond what is involved in a standard safe Medevac flight situation.

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                • I'll just put this here

                  20 minute air ambulance by graylion, on Flickr
                  Last edited by Graylion; 14 June 2020, 03:16.

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                  • Pics not showing..

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                    • Originally posted by Rocinante View Post
                      Pics not showing..
                      Dayum. I even tested after upload, but now it is gone :(. Bear with me.

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                      • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                        Dayum. I even tested after upload, but now it is gone :(. Bear with me.
                        (tick/untick the box)
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          (tick/untick the box)
                          went with Plan B

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                          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                            went with Plan B
                            So what are we looking at exactly? And what have you got against Valentia and Dingle.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              So what are we looking at exactly?
                              Ireland 2028 Olympics bid.
                              Last edited by Jetjock; 14 June 2020, 14:37.

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                              • Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                                Ireland 2028 Olympics bid.
                                better chance of getting somewhere with that then a c-130 at this stage
                                Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

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