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  • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
    And that was before they put the Gym in there.
    And the driving range

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    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
      I don't see that the crane has any purpose in Launching either Rhib or Landing Craft, that appear to be located within their own davits. its location suggests use for loading cargo from shore to deck. It also appears to be on the same side as a possible side ramp, which makes sense from a cargo handling point of view. On very close inspection, the Starboard funnel seems to have no exhausts or vents. Perhaps this is a dummy structure designed to accomodate other equipment, such as internal cargo lifts? Could explain the logic of locating the crane off the centreline.
      The given reason for twin funnels is to accommodate a hangar with as little obstruction as possible. There is some lack of definition in the drawings when you compare two starboard side arrangements with different boat types in each and also different boat types on the port side.It is mostly a case of getting the Vard's concept of equipment operations. The RFP mentions a need to provide for off loading in basic port types- no doubt they will provide for that and maybe GYM facilities!!

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      • @ancientmariner

        Which RFP are you referring to?
        It isn’t the NS one for the EPV

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        • Originally posted by sofa View Post
          And the driving range
          No we always had a driving range. MEO had a net slung across the hanger between helo visits, the problem being when the golf balls fell from the netting they took off around the hanger like missiles.......hence the fitting of a large mat to the end of the next.....
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            @ancientmariner

            Which RFP are you referring to?
            It isn’t the NS one for the EPV
            Taking it principally from the last WP and assuming we are discussing P31 replacement, and also assuming the RFP would mirror WP outline references or wish list. I also want to add a number of HADR items to the inventory of ship's outfit. Forklifts, mobile crane, and a digger bulldozer. With such a large hangar space things aboard may need pushing , pulling, and lifting. No doubt ashore it would a necessity.

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            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              Taking it principally from the last WP and assuming we are discussing P31 replacement, and also assuming the RFP would mirror WP outline references or wish list. I also want to add a number of HADR items to the inventory of ship's outfit. Forklifts, mobile crane, and a digger bulldozer. With such a large hangar space things aboard may need pushing , pulling, and lifting. No doubt ashore it would a necessity.
              So what you’d like to see in a new RFP then

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              • Regarding the RFP, specifically concerning aviation facilities, and taking sage advice where available..

                Originally posted by Herald View Post
                The folding rotor thing is losing the run of ourselves..
                Originally posted by pym View Post
                ..reading between the lines regarding actual deployments: no Irish air component, troops yes, APC's yes, helicopters: provided by them out foreign.
                Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                ..we are talking about a hull that's going to be around for 30+ years it makes sense to stick [on] as much potential capability as can be afforded..
                Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                I wouldnt get bogged down on the Hangar... It is a useful space for whatever you wish to use it for.

                Vard 7 313 Multi-Purpose Logistics Vessel

                .. I've take out my old T-Square again to have a closer look at some aspects of the recently discussed Vard design.

                An analysis of the flight hangar access appears to show a capacity to accomodate helicopters up to Merlin and S-92 size. This is an excellent provision as such aircraft, widely used in Europe for SAR and Medivac, are among those most likely to be offered to assist in Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Recovery (HADR) and peacekeeping support missions. These will be among the primary taskings of the proposed vessel and the capability to host such aircraft should be carried through to the final design.
                Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 16 May 2019, 22:32. Reason: HADR not HADAR

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                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                  We must also solve Ro-Ro ramp types and method of loading...


                  HNLMS Karel Doorman uses a stern quarter ramp, canted 45° to starboard for heavy vehicle access. It is shown here from astern, in it's folded position, to the right of the steel beach.



                  Articulated at shoulder, elbow, and wrist, it appears to be an extremely adaptable concept. We could ask the Dutch for the lessons of their experience. A potential supplier is, I believe, already a NS contractor.



                  Karel Doorman's quarter ramp in operation.
                  Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 17 May 2019, 17:47. Reason: Last Image Added

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                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    So what you’d like to see in a new RFP then
                    Was not even sure that an official RFP had been issued for the MRV at Dept.level. Looking back at assumptions and wish lists for what was described as the P61 class, based on a MEKO design, the turnout was much different and somewhat stunted and conventional. Possibly now with this MRV type we are being over prescriptive and assumptive. It is interesting to see reference to an actual Logistics ship such as the Karl Doorman, from which we should note that she transfers liquids to her fleet, and her massive hangar has a single door. Taking in helos from deck requires using an up to 5 Wire system to haul the helo into it's spot without slipping or sliding. This can be augmented with a portable rail system within the hangar. The depicted VARD double hangar door may not be western ocean compatible and is as tight as a garage in a 3 bed semi. If the hangar is not divided then make the door as big as possible.

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                    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                      Was not even sure that an official RFP had been issued for the MRV at Dept.level. Looking back at assumptions and wish lists for what was described as the P61 class, based on a MEKO design, the turnout was much different and somewhat stunted and conventional. Possibly now with this MRV type we are being over prescriptive and assumptive. It is interesting to see reference to an actual Logistics ship such as the Karl Doorman, from which we should note that she transfers liquids to her fleet, and her massive hangar has a single door. Taking in helos from deck requires using an up to 5 Wire system to haul the helo into it's spot without slipping or sliding. This can be augmented with a portable rail system within the hangar. The depicted VARD double hangar door may not be western ocean compatible and is as tight as a garage in a 3 bed semi. If the hangar is not divided then make the door as big as possible.
                      It’s hasn’t .... yet

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                      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                        The depicted VARD double hangar door may not be western ocean compatible and is as tight as a garage in a 3 bed semi. If the hangar is not divided then make the door as big as possible.
                        Why? If the scale shown above is right then other navies have operated hulls with such sized doors in the Atlantic before?

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                        • I've been on the HNLMS Karel Doorman 50 miles off the Western Isles in winter. She was operating her own embarked helicopters as well as visiting Chinooks and Merlins.

                          She did not, I promise you, sink.

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                          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                            Why? If the scale shown above is right then other navies have operated hulls with such sized doors in the Atlantic before?
                            In the 5 wire system for moving helos from deck to hangar, the upper port and starboard wires are used to prevent the helo from toppling when on the move. The door openings as shown may be too narrow to get the required wire leads on those particular wires.The designers just have to show that the side by side doors are operable at sea by demonstration . They should also say why a fuller width door is not proposed.

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                            • Is the configuration two seperate hangers - possibly for reasons of damage control, or one hanger with two doors?

                              Apart from keeping the weather of half the hanger, I'm not sure why you'd want that..

                              Perhaps it's not the doors that are significant, but the structure between them - perhaps it's part of the load bearing structure of the, err... superstructure...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                                In the 5 wire system for moving helos from deck to hangar, the upper port and starboard wires are used to prevent the helo from toppling when on the move. The door openings as shown may be too narrow to get the required wire leads on those particular wires.The designers just have to show that the side by side doors are operable at sea by demonstration . They should also say why a fuller width door is not proposed.
                                So how did the Perry class frigates for example handle two Seahawks (for the later flight) with two separate hangers mange with a much smaller beam than what is proposed in this design?

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