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  • #91
    Originally posted by ias View Post
    Still believe that the purchase of a number of used, low hour, civil AW139s would make more sense. Already have the pilots and technicians to handle them, or at least easily converted to them.
    Well you never know, still early days to this. That being said, given the issues sustaining the medical flight, how many more 139's could we absorb and utilse?

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    • #92
      Well with the current crisis in the country, I'm sure all qualified AW139 crew, even if they are now desk drivers in the IAC, could get back to flying very quickly, something that I would imagine does not apply in normal circumstances for the EMS.

      Drastic times need drastic measures.
      Last edited by ias; 3 April 2020, 03:19.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by ias View Post
        Still believe that the purchase of a number of used, low hour, civil AW139s would make more sense. Already have the pilots and technicians to handle them, or at least easily converted to them.
        I am guessing the difference is aircraft downtime. Heli need very regular intrusive maintenance, requiring lots of workshop space and man hours. The PC12 has the same engine as already in use in other aircraft, and has a fixed wing maint schedule. Fact is if rotary wing were maintenance light, everyone would have them. They aren't.
        An aircraft like the PC12 also can fly in or out of almost any of irelands many small airstrip,(800m) making it almost as useful as any heli in that regard. Better fuel consumption at 250l/h compared to Aw139 which is closer to 600l/hr. I imagine the cost factor was a major difference also. If we paid over 4m each for the kitted out version, I presume an off the shelf model works out a lot less.
        These aircraft will be the workhorse of the fleet in years to come. Fixed wing pilots will clock up solo hours in this type, as they did in the Cessna before, and they will become a familiar sight in the regional airports.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • #94
          Just one point.

          Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
          Fact is if rotary wing were maintenance light, everyone would have them.
          Everyone does.

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          • #95
            According to Flying in Ireland, the original three cost EUR32 million including all the bells and whistles, a basic one is quoted at EUR4+ million, still far cheaper than the AW139, with used ones quoted at USD5 million to USD15 million.

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            • #96
              The purchase will definitely prove its worth during and long after the current crisis. Common sense would have dictated the purchase of a basic version alongside the sensor equipped versions from the beginning. I'm sure it will receive a more appropriate colour scheme and other military mods when time allows.

              When you are looking for an aircraft at short notice that is available now and can be delivered immediately for which you have qualified flight crew and technicians and can go straight to work, well that limits your options. Couple that to the fact that securing a helicopter from an Italian manufacturer may be complicated at the present time and second hand purchases that differ from in service aircraft may complicate your supply chain and training, then this purchase makes sense

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              • #97
                I see that 280 is doing the rounds today, without giving away any state secrets, according to Fightradar24 earlier today: Casement, Cork, Donegal etc.

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                • #98
                  How many hours does it normally take for fixed wing pilots to be type rated? I'm sure someone here knows.I imagine there is a big push to get as many current PC-9 and former Cessna172 pilots up to speed on this ASAP so they can hit the ground running when the other 3 arrive.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                    How many hours does it normally take for fixed wing pilots to be type rated? I'm sure someone here knows.I imagine there is a big push to get as many current PC-9 and former Cessna172 pilots up to speed on this ASAP so they can hit the ground running when the other 3 arrive.
                    Somewhere around 8-10 hours plus ground school would be typical in the civilian sphere.

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                    • Was doing a follow along of X280 while on a work call... Kerry to Waterford to Sligo in just over an hour!
                      What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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                      • Just adding a link to an Indo story on 280 for perusal

                        * https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-39096158.html

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                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          How many hours does it normally take for fixed wing pilots to be type rated? I'm sure someone here knows.I imagine there is a big push to get as many current PC-9 and former Cessna172 pilots up to speed on this ASAP so they can hit the ground running when the other 3 arrive.
                          Depends on Background and experience level.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ias View Post
                            Still believe that the purchase of a number of used, low hour, civil AW139s would make more sense. Already have the pilots and technicians to handle them, or at least easily converted to them.
                            Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                            Well you never know, still early days to this. That being said, given the issues sustaining the medical flight, how many more 139's could we absorb and utilse?
                            Originally posted by ias View Post
                            Well with the current crisis in the country, I'm sure all qualified AW139 crew, even if they are now desk drivers in the IAC, could get back to flying very quickly, something that I would imagine does not apply in normal circumstances for the EMS.

                            Drastic times need drastic measures.
                            Back in 2019 there was Lt Col’s flying EAS in order to keep it operational plus it had to be taken out of service for a number of short periods

                            Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                            The purchase will definitely prove its worth during and long after the current crisis. Common sense would have dictated the purchase of a basic version alongside the sensor equipped versions from the beginning. I'm sure it will receive a more appropriate colour scheme and other military mods when time allows.

                            When you are looking for an aircraft at short notice that is available now and can be delivered immediately for which you have qualified flight crew and technicians and can go straight to work, well that limits your options. Couple that to the fact that securing a helicopter from an Italian manufacturer may be complicated at the present time and second hand purchases that differ from in service aircraft may complicate your supply chain and training, then this purchase makes sense
                            The 3 aircraft were multi-role (passenger, casevac, cargo, ISTAR capable). Hopefully this aircraft will become ISTAR capable in time but either way if not it will allow the AC to use it for training and save hours on the more capable aircraft.

                            Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                            How many hours does it normally take for fixed wing pilots to be type rated? I'm sure someone here knows.I imagine there is a big push to get as many current PC-9 and former Cessna172 pilots up to speed on this ASAP so they can hit the ground running when the other 3 arrive.
                            Originally posted by Jetjock View Post
                            Somewhere around 8-10 hours plus ground school would be typical in the civilian sphere.
                            Was going to be a good few months to achieve initial operational capability

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                            • At least now you'll have pilots to fly it while the talking freight get to learn the systems aboard.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • it's a good idea, it can do all those runabout jobs and keep the real ones for their work, hell, if sanity prevails they might led soldiers jump out of it, and if they are really nice they might let them take parachutes...
                                "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                                Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                                Illegitimi non carborundum

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