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  • Vard/STX were involved with both the P50 and P60 design


    Note helipad on P50 design

    Comment


    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      Just noticed that VARD (people behind the P50 & P60 design) have a new multi-role vessel.

      https://vardmarine.com/gallery/vard-7-313/
      https://vardmarine.com/wp-content/up...VARD-7-313.pdf

      Could this be a sign of things to come?
      Helicopter type, camo and roundel might be a clue for some!


      Sweet!

      Implication that the wheels are turning. Sure Vard would like to maintain involvement in NS acquisition programmes, and vice versa, understand the relationship is considered on all sides to have been very mutually productive one.

      Folding rotor blade retro-fit for AW139s is concievable. Practical insight could be gained from the Swedes who have operated an army/navy light utility squadron of AW109s for several years. Unnavalised 'green' helicopters generally do quite badly in a naval environment, not least because of the pervasive effects of salt water/air.

      If I'm correct on the volumes, the stores and equipment for an EU ISTAR component could be loaded aboard, although the flight facilities would be overrun.

      I can't speak to the weight/displacement implications of such a heavy loading.

      76mm would appear to be a minimum requirement.

      * Swedish AW109s have deployed expeditionally aboard HMDS Absalon on East Africa anti-piracy missions.
      Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 13 May 2019, 22:03.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by The Usual Suspect View Post


        Sweet!

        Implication that the wheels are turning. Sure Vard would like to maintain involvement in NS acquisition programmes, and vice versa, understand the relationship is considered on all sides to have been very mutually productive one.

        Folding rotor blade retro-fit for AW139s is concievable. Practical insight could be gained from the Swedes who have operated an army/navy light utility squadron of AW109s for several years. Unnavalised 'green' helicopters generally do quite badly in a naval environment, not least because of the pervasive effects of salt water/air.

        If I'm correct on the volumes, an EU ISTAR component with all it's equipment could be loaded aboard, although the flight facilities would be overrun.

        I can't speak to the weight/displacement implications of such a heavy loading.

        76mm would appear to be a minimum requirement.

        * Swedish AW109s have deployed expeditionally aboard HMDS Absalon on East Africa anti-piracy missions.
        If we are happy to proceed with the Vard-7-313 then we must solve certain operational and lifetime requirements such as on-going dry Docking plans for the ship. We must also solve Ro-Ro ramp types and method of loading such as the five height variables in loading i.e ship light, ship loaded, tide low, tide high, lastly actual height of quay wall. All these matters would have to be discussed with specialists in the loading and watertight integrity of logistic ships such as the McGregor Company. They would need to know the nature and footprint of all vehicles to be carried and whether you want more than one vehicle at a time on the ramp. It is a naval necessity that the ship can also defend itself and offer some support to deploying units.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by The Usual Suspect View Post


          Sweet!

          Implication that the wheels are turning. Sure Vard would like to maintain involvement in NS acquisition programmes, and vice versa, understand the relationship is considered on all sides to have been very mutually productive one.

          Folding rotor blade retro-fit for AW139s is concievable. Practical insight could be gained from the Swedes who have operated an army/navy light utility squadron of AW109s for several years. Unnavalised 'green' helicopters generally do quite badly in a naval environment, not least because of the pervasive effects of salt water/air.

          If I'm correct on the volumes, the stores and equipment for an EU ISTAR component could be loaded aboard, although the flight facilities would be overrun.

          I can't speak to the weight/displacement implications of such a heavy loading.

          76mm would appear to be a minimum requirement.

          * Swedish AW109s have deployed expeditionally aboard HMDS Absalon on East Africa anti-piracy missions.
          She could carry most (not all) of the Irish contingent of the NBG, which afaik the German BG contingent was bigger than.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            If we are happy to proceed with the Vard-7-313 then we must solve certain operational and lifetime requirements such as on-going dry Docking plans for the ship. We must also solve Ro-Ro ramp types and method of loading such as the five height variables in loading i.e ship light, ship loaded, tide low, tide high, lastly actual height of quay wall. All these matters would have to be discussed with specialists in the loading and watertight integrity of logistic ships such as the McGregor Company. They would need to know the nature and footprint of all vehicles to be carried and whether you want more than one vehicle at a time on the ramp. It is a naval necessity that the ship can also defend itself and offer some support to deploying units.
            Ringaskiddy an option?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Ringaskiddy an option?
              No. Will be too busy.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                Ringaskiddy an option?
                Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                No. Will be too busy.
                Developments in Haulbowline within a compatible timeline?

                Or a temporary/permanant facility at Whitegate?

                Am I correct in my understanding that loading draught may be a constraining factor under current conditions in the basin?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The Usual Suspect View Post
                  Folding rotor blade retro-fit for AW139s is concievable. Practical insight could be gained from the Swedes who have operated an army/navy light utility squadron of AW109s for several years. Unnavalised 'green' helicopters generally do quite badly in a naval environment, not least because of the pervasive effects of salt water/air.
                  As you say, "green" helicopters will suffer even if we did retro-fit them for folding rotors, how much would that cost anyway? And of course what's the price tag for proper "navalised 139s"?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                    As you say, "green" helicopters will suffer even if we did retro-fit them for folding rotors, how much would that cost anyway? And of course what's the price tag for proper "navalised 139s"?
                    Ah yeah, it's a whole other thing.. I'm open to correction, but I believe the Brits have retro-fitted folding rotors on everything from Chinooks to Apaches, at least temporarily.

                    US Marines, for the most part, use frankencopters.. blend of Navalised/Unnavalised.

                    *PS Definitely have a chat with the Swedes to ease ourselves into the practicalities of the concept. Might be Swedish roundels in the diagram anyway. :-)

                    *PPS Bristow have, over the last two years, been renewing semi-navalised SAR AW139s with larger AW189s for their HM Coastguard contracts. Detailed information not immediately available.
                    Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 14 May 2019, 00:47.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by The Usual Suspect View Post
                      Developments in Haulbowline within a compatible timeline?

                      Or a temporary/permanant facility at Whitegate?

                      Am I correct in my understanding that loading draught may be a constraining factor under current conditions in the basin?
                      Whitegate has no quayside. What space there is with sufficient depth is already earmarked for an LNG storage terminal.
                      Both beam and draft are a limiting factor for ships intending to cross the basin sill.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                      Comment


                      • Forgive me, but is anyone, anywhere, operating AW139's with folding blades? Has AgustaWestland tested and certified a folding blade option for the AW139?

                        If not, are you expecting the State will pay for this R&D?

                        Cheers.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          Whitegate has no quayside. What space there is with sufficient depth is already earmarked for an LNG storage terminal.
                          Both beam and draft are a limiting factor for ships intending to cross the basin sill.
                          Could the old IFI pier be an option? What's the Port of Cork's plans for it short to medium term?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by pym View Post
                            Forgive me, but is anyone, anywhere, operating AW139's with folding blades? Has AgustaWestland tested and certified a folding blade option for the AW139?

                            If not, are you expecting the State will pay for this R&D?

                            Cheers.
                            Had assumed this capability on the basis of Swedish AW109s deployed on HMDS Absalon for anti-piracy missions off East Africa coast. And yes, blade folding is a manufacturer's option on the 109.

                            Haven't been able to find a direct reference to it on the 139, but have been able (in haste) to find a reference to an after-market rotor maintenence step that can be installed on the aircraft, to aid in the process of manual blade folding.
                            Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 14 May 2019, 12:03. Reason: HMDS not HMDLS

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                              Could the old IFI pier be an option? What's the Port of Cork's plans for it short to medium term?
                              Using it as a Bulk Jetty. Old IFI fertilizer augers were removed recently. Everything Port of Cork is moving downstream. City quays all earmarked for residential development, leaving lots of quayside for non cargo.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                Using it as a Bulk Jetty. Old IFI fertilizer augers were removed recently. Everything Port of Cork is moving downstream. City quays all earmarked for residential development, leaving lots of quayside for non cargo.
                                AFAIK the joint venture into Mahon Point redevelopement do not envisage using the facility for RO-RO traffic or Container services. The Vard-7-313 would need a mooring link designed for Home port. Most ports use a floating link so that tide has minimal effect. The difficulty is what happens at a non-descript arrival port?

                                Comment

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