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  • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
    ATCP/ATCA operations are somewhat unknown duration activities.

    Routine offshore patrolling/fishery protection, guard duties etc are clearly defined duration activities and should come under the WTD.

    Doing duties 15days out of 30 (EOD) and other similar situations should be managed out of practice by force of the OoWT Act.

    Patrolling is defined in its length of duration yes, but the roles carried out cannot be defined per patrol.

    Can go from FP ops to SAR Ops or MIO (Maritime Interdiction Ops) in a heartbeat.

    Depending on the situation, these operations can last up to 12hrs+.

    In this senario it proves impossible to apply the WTD.

    This forms the backbone of the claim for increase in PDA.

    Comment


    • Length of duration is enough. You aim off for a realistic mixed ratio of "normal routine" and calculated emergency tasks and pay accordingly.

      I wholeheartedly support an increase in PDA

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      • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
        I disagree with you. Times of emergency (I.e terror attack, active armed combat, prisoner cordon and search, search and rescue, etc - yes they are times where WTD are impractical for Gardai/DF - hence the MSA paid to DF.

        Everything else - adhere to the Act.

        If every other European Military can do it (which includes most of NATO) then Ireland can too.

        To say other wise is a cheap cop out, a danger personnel and a distinct lack of leadership and owning responsibility for the welfare of the States Service Members
        It's rather strange that the most successful Forces in the world, albeit in conflicts past, including Falklands, just follow Regulations, Army Orders, and Admiralty Instructions all overseen by General Staffs and those with devolved Command. The rest is window dressing and a dilution of possible positive outcomes and to empower those NOT in Uniform. The latter will be no where to be seen when the s--t hits the fan. MSA is well earned, but the winning ingredient comes from the person in Uniform fully resourced and " Ready to Go ".

        Comment


        • Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
          Patrolling is defined in its length of duration yes, but the roles carried out cannot be defined per patrol.

          Can go from FP ops to SAR Ops or MIO (Maritime Interdiction Ops) in a heartbeat.

          Depending on the situation, these operations can last up to 12hrs+.

          In this senario it proves impossible to apply the WTD.

          This forms the backbone of the claim for increase in PDA.
          PDA should be tax free, as no matter what is offered being subject to taxes not every person is rewarded equally.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
            PDA should be tax free, as no matter what is offered being subject to taxes not every person is rewarded equally.
            Making PDA allowance tax free would be a huge incentive for those going to sea, especially officers and POs and up who currently automatically pay it at higher rate tax already with USC on top of that. It would be an extra 25 euro per day into the pocket for some...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
              PDA should be tax free, as no matter what is offered being subject to taxes not every person is rewarded equally.
              I could go with that idea, and with many others. If we can solve Manning , we can ensure the future. However there is a major obstacle contained within the mindset of the Department that sees the Defence ethic and it's nature as being overburdened with costly anachronistic benefits such as Hospitals, Maternity wards, Accommodation, Married Quarters , to mention a few. If we were in conflict can we produce the necessary medical chains of recovery of injured, treatment on route, in theater stabilising surgery, homeside hospitals and aftercare. Could we produce, and staff , a Camp Bastion?

              The Services have a similar mindset when dealing with difficult equipment, often left to rot on the vine or excised, dumped to the pound, or boarded. When this is done the skills operating such equipment are also conveyed to history. The Navy over the years have lost the complete Naval competence acquired between the corvettes and P31.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                Making PDA allowance tax free would be a huge incentive for those going to sea, especially officers and POs and up who currently automatically pay it at higher rate tax already with USC on top of that. It would be an extra 25 euro per day into the pocket for some...
                My point exactly!

                You could always justify tf in working so many days offshore per anum not paying tax as do tax exiles. It is feasible, just takes a will to do it.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                  Making PDA allowance tax free would be a huge incentive for those going to sea, especially officers and POs and up who currently automatically pay it at higher rate tax already with USC on top of that. It would be an extra 25 euro per day into the pocket for some...

                  Could be equated to working offshore at so many days per anum, where you don't pay tax. A will from the DoD..quick chat with the Revenue Commissioners, job sorted....
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                    Could be equated to working offshore at so many days per anum, where you don't pay tax. A will from the DoD..quick chat with the Revenue Commissioners, job sorted....
                    Also, it wouldn't have a detrimental impact on the DF budget (even though it would marginally impact the State's tax take). Win win.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                      Could be equated to working offshore at so many days per anum, where you don't pay tax. A will from the DoD..quick chat with the Revenue Commissioners, job sorted....
                      Just playing devils advocate here.
                      What about those whose duties ashore mean they are not entitled to PDA? Should they be out of pocket because they hold a shore appointment?
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                        Just playing devils advocate here.
                        What about those whose duties ashore mean they are not entitled to PDA? Should they be out of pocket because they hold a shore appointment?
                        Those at shore don't receive PDA anyway so it's irrelevant IMO. Any tax change would be to incentivise staying in AND going to sea.
                        Shore appointments are less impacting on the sailor for obvious reasons.

                        Comment




                        • Extend this to cover the NS?

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                          • But, what if there is no appointments aboard ship for your particular trade at that rank? Then are you being penalised for your career path, meaning at some point in future nobody wants to go to job x because it would mean a cut in pay? Then you'll have to create a comparable allowance for people to take up said shore appointment.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              It would need to be something completely different. The allowance for seafarers stipulates.

                              'the individual must be absent from the state for at least 161 days in a year
                              of assessment in the performance of duties wholly performed aboard a
                              sea-going ship on an international voyage. Any incidental duties not
                              performed on board the ship are ignored,
                              o the ship must be an EU registered passenger ferry or freight carrying
                              vessel'

                              It must be on an international voyage and not simply a patrol. Also needs to be a merchant vessel.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                                But, what if there is no appointments aboard ship for your particular trade at that rank? Then are you being penalised for your career path, meaning at some point in future nobody wants to go to job x because it would mean a cut in pay? Then you'll have to create a comparable allowance for people to take up said shore appointment.
                                Respectfully I disagree with you here. If someone takes a shore appointment they don't get an allowance but they get the benefit of not having to go to sea and the pressures that involves. Any career is about choices.

                                The argument above could be extended to those in the Army/Air Corps. 'Why shouldn't I get a PDA equivalent? It's not my fault the army doesn't patrol the seas'.

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