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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    A lot has happened in the past 14 years, even in the past 5 years since WP15, let's see what the new wind in the DoD brings.
    "Imagine the size of a VIP function we could host abroad with a deck as large as that. The roof of the P60s is a corner pub by comparison".
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
      experience shows no new wind lol
      Rome was not built in a day!

      The first test will be the Commission on Defence, it's ToR and who is will be part of it. If it a serious effort then one thing I would not expect is to order an EPV, start a RFI process maybe but no order next year.

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      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
        Rome was not built in a day!

        The first test will be the Commission on Defence, it's ToR and who is will be part of it. If it a serious effort then one thing I would not expect is to order an EPV, start a RFI process maybe but no order next year.
        The RFI has already been done, over 10 years ago. We should be at RFT now.
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
          The RFI has already been done, over 10 years ago. We should be at RFT now.
          The RFI for the original EPV was done 10 years ago and some of the companies have changed considerably TKMS for one. Plus one would hope that the output of the fact findings that has since gone on will be also taken into account in defining the new specifications. So a new RFI and and then RFP would be needed.

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          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
            The RFI has already been done, over 10 years ago. We should be at RFT now.
            Assuming an RFT is in the offing, we must not in one fell swoop kill off the chance of a versatile vessel. Providing for 12 trainees on such a ship is short sighted giving that a class of recruits or L/rates is 25/35. I would provide for 25 trainees and austere accommodation for required amounts of mil personnel in transit, with required catering and plumbing for all. The ship should be able to commonly berth unaided and steer well at slowest speeds.

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            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              Assuming an RFT is in the offing, we must not in one fell swoop kill off the chance of a versatile vessel. Providing for 12 trainees on such a ship is short sighted giving that a class of recruits or L/rates is 25/35. I would provide for 25 trainees and austere accommodation for required amounts of mil personnel in transit, with required catering and plumbing for all. The ship should be able to commonly berth unaided and steer well at slowest speeds.
              If you had temp accom spaces similar to what is found on the Peacocks, you could house trainees, or deployed troops in a relatively small area. Not ideal for long term, but fine for short trips or overseas excursions.
              Normal full time crew keep the cabin standard we have become used to on the P50 and P60.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                The RFI for the original EPV was done 10 years ago and some of the companies have changed considerably TKMS for one. Plus one would hope that the output of the fact findings that has since gone on will be also taken into account in defining the new specifications. So a new RFI and and then RFP would be needed.
                Do you need a new RFI? Surely the last process identified what is available on the market, and the RFT would permit a builder to design and build to fit a more specified criteria than that seen on the RFP.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                  Do you need a new RFI? Surely the last process identified what is available on the market, and the RFT would permit a builder to design and build to fit a more specified criteria than that seen on the RFP.
                  What is available has changed greatly, as will the cost

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                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    What is available has changed greatly, as will the cost
                    That's what the RFT is for.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                      Do you need a new RFI? Surely the last process identified what is available on the market, and the RFT would permit a builder to design and build to fit a more specified criteria than that seen on the RFP.
                      Given how long it's been since the RFI, surely the market has changed a good bit since then?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                        Given how long it's been since the RFI, surely the market has changed a good bit since then?
                        Not really. The only vessel of type that has entered service since is Canterbury. Other nations have expressed interest in the concept, and the design houses have had time to come up with options as a result.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                          Do you need a new RFI? Surely the last process identified what is available on the market, and the RFT would permit a builder to design and build to fit a more specified criteria than that seen on the RFP.
                          It was done 14 years ago, and just this week Bulgaria order to Multi Mission Modular Patrol vessels from Lurssen, what they look like I don't know yet but thing have moved on. The RNZN have had some experience with HMS Canterbury and modifications. Several Pacific Rims countries have order Strategic Support Vessels or are in the process of ordering some. While I still hope that the VARD 7-313 has been designed for us given the amount of time that has past since the original process was started it would be good to see what is on the market.

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                          • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                            So has it gone to tender?
                            No still in planning.

                            It would be quite contemptible to tender it at this stage given the manpower crisis and that half the fleet is tied up.
                            Money needs to be invested in a genuine personnel retention package, accommodation and whatever else is needed to bring the numbers back up to a healthy level before any new ship is ordered. When P64 entered service two ships had to be tied up to crew it and things have gotten worse since then.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                              No still in planning.

                              It would be quite contemptible to tender it at this stage given the manpower crisis and that half the fleet is tied up.
                              Money needs to be invested in a genuine personnel retention package, accommodation and whatever else is needed to bring the numbers back up to a healthy level before any new ship is ordered. When P64 entered service two ships had to be tied up to crew it and things have gotten worse since then.
                              Wholeheartedly disagree. This is a long term plan. This is planning for something which will happen in 5 years time, whether the staffing shortage was there or not, the inevitable retirement of L.E. Eithne, the last ship built in the state.
                              You cannot put off major equipment purchases in future because of events happening today. If you do, and on reaching 2025, realise you have the crew, but hey, Eithne can't go to sea because of her hull/machinery being past it, then it will take you 5 years without any capability before you get it back, and another 5 years to get it up to operational again.
                              Did the Air Corps decide to put off replacing the Casa because of Pilot shortages? Likewise for the Cessna 172!
                              When Eithne was built, the NS was also short of crew, it held a huge recruiting campaign, and took on 100 extra ratings before the ship entered service. These people were able to fill vacancies on other ships to allow experienced crew to go aboard and bring the ship into service. Some of P64's crew were it's crew a year before it even left Appledore! The idea of a helicopter capable Naval vessel in Irish service was actually a useful recruiting tool at the time.

                              To use the phrase from a movie, "If you build it they will come".
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                Wholeheartedly disagree. This is a long term plan. This is planning for something which will happen in 5 years time, whether the staffing shortage was there or not, the inevitable retirement of L.E. Eithne, the last ship built in the state.
                                You cannot put off major equipment purchases in future because of events happening today. If you do, and on reaching 2025, realise you have the crew, but hey, Eithne can't go to sea because of her hull/machinery being past it, then it will take you 5 years without any capability before you get it back, and another 5 years to get it up to operational again.
                                Did the Air Corps decide to put off replacing the Casa because of Pilot shortages? Likewise for the Cessna 172!
                                When Eithne was built, the NS was also short of crew, it held a huge recruiting campaign, and took on 100 extra ratings before the ship entered service. These people were able to fill vacancies on other ships to allow experienced crew to go aboard and bring the ship into service. Some of P64's crew were it's crew a year before it even left Appledore! The idea of a helicopter capable Naval vessel in Irish service was actually a useful recruiting tool at the time.

                                To use the phrase from a movie, "If you build it they will come".

                                The perfect answer..... ????????

                                Saved me loads of typing

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