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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    Babcock will speed the work out as it is all they have at present unless we want to order a ship a year.
    Can't really blame them, besides if we are standing up a whole new ship without decommissioning another, will we need time to handle the crew/support issues anyway?

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    • From people who are over there, the first steel for P64 will be cut in late August.

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      • NINTH SHIP and all that.

        Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
        Can't really blame them, besides if we are standing up a whole new ship without decommissioning another, will we need time to handle the crew/support issues anyway?
        So a new ship is ordered and one hopes it was a NAVAL choice without any hint of expediency, budgetary or otherwise. While the hull is important it's intended role and contribution to the Naval strength is paramount. Crewing by deletion/ transfer implies holding establishment and ship numbers at status quo. However if 9 ships plus base, training, and engineering are the intention then we would need 9X 46 X 2.5= 1035 for seagoing plus an element to cover Base, Training, and Engineering. A figure around 1350 establishment is probable.

        There are other pressures, caused by bad decisions, caused by lack of space,whereby the social/living aspects of the Navy ,and Defence forces, have been sarcrificed, leading to loss of married quarters and general accommodation for officers , NCOs, and Men and their families. The Department of Defence needs to look at the UK and how they house and look after service families both at home and abroad.

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        • The new OPV must be for the NSR!

          Sure they are calling up the FLR to crew the current vessels

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          • There are other pressures, caused by bad decisions, caused by lack of space,whereby the social/living aspects of the Navy ,and Defence forces, have been sarcrificed, leading to loss of married quarters and general accommodation for officers , NCOs, and Men and their families. The Department of Defence needs to look at the UK and how they house and look after service families both at home and abroad.
            Accommodation for DF people and their families has been problematic since the inception of the DF. But the nature of the employment, longevity of contracts without review and the whole mess around retention of married quarters after retirement has led the DF to tend not to get involved anymore.

            Haulbowline had its own community years ago, school, church etc, the housing was poor live in accommodation for Ratings was disgraceful and most were better off living in ships.

            Withe the clear out of Married quarters and SLIs the DF saved itself a packet and probably no interest in ever returning to those days, although good cheap SLI quarters would help with retention.
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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            • Babcock’s Appledore to build fourth Irish offshore patrol vessel
              Lead ship of the class, L.É. Samuel Beckett. Photo: Babcock Internationalzoom
              Lead ship of the class, L.É. Samuel Beckett. Photo: Babcock International
              The Irish Department of Defense has awarded Babcock and its Appledore shipyard a contract to build the nation’s fourth Samuel Beckett-class offshore patrol vessel.

              All four vessels are built at the Appledore shipyard in North Devon at a unit price of around €54 million.

              The first two vessels in the class, LÉ Samuel Beckett and LÉ James Joyce are already in service while a third ship, the LÉ William Butler Yeats is currently being built and is due to embark on sea trials in July 2016.

              The yet unnamed fourth OPV is scheduled to be completed within the next two years.

              At 90 metres long and 2256 tonnes, the ships have a top speed of 23 knots and a range of 6,000 nautical miles at a cruise speed of 15 knots.

              The OPVs have a 76mm gun as the main weapon and are able to act as a mother ship for three fully independent Rigid Hulled Inflatable Boats.

              taken from Navaltoday;

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              • Originally posted by balldy View Post
                Babcock’s Appledore to build fourth Irish offshore patrol vessel


                At 90 metres long and 2256 tonnes, the ships have a top speed of 23 knots and a range of 6,000 nautical miles at a cruise speed of 15 knots.

                The OPVs have a 76mm gun as the main weapon and are able to act as a mother ship for three fully independent Rigid Hulled Inflatable Boats.

                taken from Navaltoday;
                Really! Speed, Gun, 3 Boats,some SAR, and what else can they do. Somebody has to plan a use and a capability for 4 moderately large Naval vessels with a likely lifespan to 2050. We should at least match the best of the OPV family with an all round Defence. Floating and throwing a shape just doesn't cut it and has the potential to negate necessary intervention at a critical time due to a lack of defensive/offensive hardware and systems.

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                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                  Really! Speed, Gun, 3 Boats,some SAR, and what else can they do. Somebody has to plan a use and a capability for 4 moderately large Naval vessels with a likely lifespan to 2050. We should at least match the best of the OPV family with an all round Defence. Floating and throwing a shape just doesn't cut it and has the potential to negate necessary intervention at a critical time due to a lack of defensive/offensive hardware and systems.
                  perhaps the plan for their use is pretty much what every NS vessel has been doing since the war - the 'North Atlantic Constabulary Patrol Task': the P60's are perfectly capably of carrying out the FP/Counter-Terrorism/Counter-Smuggling task in the North East Atlantic/EEZ, and barring a Russian naval base in Belfast, will be for several decades to come.

                  the issue is the overseas role, for which the P60 is unsuited because it doesn't have a helicopter pad, or much 'overspill' accomodation, or cargo carrying capacity, or scope for a significant increase in its fighting capability - not least because its not built to the same standards as a fighty warship. however, if its not intented to use the P60's, particularly in their current fit, in the overseas role on a long term, or shooty-shooty way, then thats not really a problem.

                  the NS, and the government, seem to take a similar view - the MRV/EPV/Whatever-the-hell is still on the shopping list, its just that no one can decide what it should do, and therefore what it should look like.

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                  • So far it is stated it should be similar to its sister ships, hopefully at least they will replace the Rhino with the newer MLG27 (also a Rhino) as this would be some improvement.

                    Although I think a sensor fit and soft kill capability would be welcome, especially as they will use the P60's just like today the P50's in overseas work. There something along the lines of the Thales CMS300 with the optional LIROD FCS would be a turnkey fit.
                    http://www.thales7seas.com/html5_bet...lution_300.pdf

                    For the soft kill 2 Rheinmetall DASS systems would be an option as they are modular standalone systems requiring very little integration.

                    All would be less than the VAT that the Revenue will charge the NS when they import the ships...........

                    Naturally it would be great if the NS had 3 Phalanx systems to switch between ships going out of area, a plug & play solution.

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                    • Any NS vessel (including a MRV or ETV) will spend 90% of its time in the Irish EEZ / over the Irish Continental Shelf conducting constabulary type duties.

                      Even the P50s/P60s could do humanitarian work (eg the Med) or similar and/or anti-piracy or UN type work. Would they be ideal or perfect - no - but they could do it. Even the US frigates/destroyers with all there sensors and firepower have found that they are not invulnerable to swarm or small boat type attacks.

                      The major issues I thing with the MRV are:
                      - the capital costs involved
                      - utilisation of the overseas space
                      - how much space for the overseas work?

                      If you make it Bn Gp sized it is big and expensive, will be under utilised and may be unhappy in high seas

                      If you make it Coy Gp/EUBG IRCON sized it will be small (but still big), less expensive (but still expensive), possibly under utilised (but more utilised than a bigger vessel) and quite possibly still unhappy in high seas.

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                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        Any NS vessel (including a MRV or ETV) will spend 90% of its time in the Irish EEZ / over the Irish Continental Shelf conducting constabulary type duties...
                        you say this every time, and you always put it at the top o the 'whats needed?' list - but its not true.

                        in Irish EPV/MRV would (in the context of the current op) go to the Med in April and stay there until October, it would port in Italy and Malta and its crew would rotate.

                        6 month, 12 month, 18 month deployments are relatively routine in Navies - hell, even Submarines can do 11 month deployments (the crew must look like uncooked chips after that...).

                        an Irish EPV/MRV that was part of a relatively modern, 9 ship fleet would spend the overwhelming majority of its life on overseas duty - 6 months in the Med/Indian Ocean, exercises with the Army/AC both at home and with EUBG, defence diplomacy, support for UN/EU ops, humanitarian relief in the Carribean...

                        the idea that the EPV/MRV is a fisheries protection ship that will get dobbed to do other things once a decade utterly, utterly wrong.

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                        • Thread split.. manning levels.
                          "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                          Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                          Illegitimi non carborundum

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                          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                            What makes the order of a ninth ship make it seem that only something along the 60's is the future? Is it just very Irish to proclaim that getting an increase in the actual size of the fleet is something that we should be complaining about? I mean not too many years ago the idea that we'd get a 1 for 1 looked remote. Let's just wait and see what happens rather than declare what might happen in 3-6 years from now.
                            Referencing the recent White Paper on Defence, Minister Kehoe explained that,

                            “Work has commenced in the Department on the ships replacement programme. The specifications for the replacement vessels will be drawn up and a public tender competition will be instigated to cover the supply of future replacement ships, including a large multi role vessel as stated in the White Paper”.

                            Further information will be made available on this replacement programme in due course.

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                            • It is interesting that Minister Kehoe talks about a large multi role vessel rather than an EPV.
                              It would be interesting if they are think along the lines of a vessel similar to SSV vessels ordered by the Philippines? The price would be not much different to another SB-class.

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                              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                                It is interesting that Minister Kehoe talks about a large multi role vessel rather than an EPV.
                                It would be interesting if they are think along the lines of a vessel similar to SSV vessels ordered by the Philippines? The price would be not much different to another SB-class.
                                Something like that (or the Singaporean Endurance) have issues, for example the crew areas (down to basic sizes for people), I seem to remember the RN said no to some of the BAE "light frigates" due to berthing issues.

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